this time in North Dakota involving a BNSF train hauling crude oil being hit by another that had derailed.
Here is the link from Yahoo
http://news.yahoo.com/two-trains-collide-north-dakota-one-them-carrying-215524489–finance.html
Of course the PC folk are calling for a cease to using trains to haul the oil but what other way is there?
I don’t think anyone was killed.
The soybeans did it.
I was reading a first person story in Classic Trains the other day about # 57 the last hotshot freight on the old Rock Is. He said he was happy to get a train of box cars because the grain cars were susceptable to Harmonic Rocking. As I understand the Harmonic designation; is the force increases as the cycles over lap.
Example; on one of my sister’s heat pumps, a copper pipe was installed with an expansion loop. 3 weeks in a row a freshly repaired compression fitting broke. I happened to be there one day and checked the connection. The pumps vibration had that loop singing so fast the pipe was work hardened and broke at the fitting each time. A bit of string cured the bad vibes. Been a couple of years now…
The grain train hit the oil train… we should ban soy beans!
I pray no one was killed or hurt and they can minimise the burn.
John
I wonder if it would make sense to impose speed restrictions on oil trains (at least in populated areas) and also enhanced speed restrictions for other trains passing by unit oil trains. Some folks are beginning to think the concept of unit oil trains is inherently dangerous, but I think it could actually prove to be safer if they are handled with extra caution from other trains. Who cares about keeping high pace schedules when there is so much money and life at risk? An extra day or two for delievery beats getting sued or having to replace all the tanks.
I wonder, would the grain train have crashed into the oil train (as badly, or at all) if it had been restricted down to 10mph a mile before the meet? Obviously, harmonic rocking can occur at different speeds, but one would think a lower speed event would have less tramatic results.
There is 1200 plus cars aday going from North Dakota to Texas, I am quite surprised there are not more
wrecks .
Warren Buffet the owner of BNSF and a large donator $$$ to a political party, is the reason the pipe line
has not been approved.
The UP hauls 1500 cars aday from west Texas to the refineries,
So our Rail systems are a huge factor in providing our country with a large portion of our fuel.
They are providing lots of employment oppurtunities, between building the cars, building the engines, making new rails, and many many more, oppurtunities for employment.
So we model after a very vital system to our country.
Have fun and Happy New Year in modeling a part of our history.
Dennis
Don’t forget deferred maintenance could also be a problem! So far no one has been killed. All that good gas going to waste! I wonder why they have not pulled the upright cars out of the area? What a way to run a RR!
Paul
Derailments will happen. equip or human factors are becoming the big players in any industry causing accidents. I remember when Tank Train was invented. Never heard much about any derailments with these trains. Also the tank cars being used to haul the oil are not up to date for safety requirements. Might be a good idea to limit the speeds of unit trains with the older cars. Later RJD
I think we are taking a knee jerk reaction. We are talking about the danger of hauling oil by rail, but no one has addressed the failed use of standard operation procedures.
From what I understand, the Soy Bean train derailed. Then later the oil train crashed into the back of the derailed soy bean train??? If thats the case then safety procedures were not followed. Isnt there a minimum distance requirement between trains? So that if something happens to the lead train, then the dispatcher has time to alert the following train.
Where was the dispatcher in all this. With todays communication. The dispatcher in charge of that strech of line should have known pretty soon after the soy bean train derailed and alerted the following train, which obviously didnt happen.
Instead of going after the oil trains, they need to review procedures following a derailment.
Jake Smith said:
I think we are taking a knee jerk reaction. We are talking about the danger of hauling oil by rail, but no one has addressed the failed use of standard operation procedures.
From what I understand, the Soy Bean train derailed. Then later the oil train crashed into the back of the derailed soy bean train??? If thats the case then safety procedures were not followed. Isnt there a minimum distance requirement between trains? So that if something happens to the lead train, then the dispatcher has time to alert the following train.
Where was the dispatcher in all this. With todays communication. The dispatcher in charge of that strech of line should have known pretty soon after the soy bean train derailed and alerted the following train, which obviously didnt happen.
Instead of going after the oil trains, they need to review procedures following a derailment.
That’s more like it, human error somewhere along the line. BTW deferred maintenace also counts as human error. The Beancounters should be sent to count soya beans for a while i.e. get their collective butts out there on the ground where things happen and then have a long and hard think about it.
As always strictly my opinion!
So they would propose banning oil trains and using trucks?
As I understand it, the two trains were passing each other when the grain train derailed, causing the resulting collision with the oil train. Altho it’s too soon to say it was the cause, the NTSB has discovered a broken axle amid the wreckage. As far as I know, this is a pretty rare failure. They have already ruled out bad track or signals. Just very thankful that it happened outside town, and the locals and train crews are all okay!
BTW deferred maintenance is not considered human failure according to FRA procedures. If equip is involved such as axles it goes into equip failure. Yes the two trains where on separate tracks. Depending on when the first train derailed it was already to late to stop the other train. It could have happened as the two trains passed one another.
I would say with the amount of tonnage that operates over this section of RR is maintained well. Just for your info The NTSB gets most of there info provided to them by the FRA. The FRA does all the work and the NTSB gets all the credit. Ask me how I know. Later RJD
R.J. DeBerg said:
BTW deferred maintenance is not considered human failure according to FRA procedures. If equip is involved such as axles it goes into equip failure. Yes the two trains where on separate tracks. Depending on when the first train derailed it was already to late to stop the other train. It could have happened as the two trains passed one another.
I would say with the amount of tonnage that operates over this section of RR is maintained well. Just for your info The NTSB gets most of there info provided to them by the FRA. The FRA does all the work and the NTSB gets all the credit. Ask me how I know. Later RJD
How do you know RJ !!! 
R.J. DeBerg said:
BTW deferred maintenance is not considered human failure according to FRA procedures. If equip is involved such as axles it goes into equip failure. Yes the two trains where on separate tracks. Depending on when the first train derailed it was already to late to stop the other train. It could have happened as the two trains passed one another.
I would say with the amount of tonnage that operates over this section of RR is maintained well. Just for your info The NTSB gets most of there info provided to them by the FRA. The FRA does all the work and the NTSB gets all the credit. Ask me how I know. Later RJD
It all depends on your outlook, if you don’t maintain your car and cause a collision then it’s human failure. The same principle applies to everything: cause and consequences. The one difference is, the little guys can’t hide as easily as the big guys, who pass the buck whichever way seems to be most appropriate.
In my previous life I would name cause and potential consequences quite readily, going as far as “Sorry, if you want to do that, you best look for someone else to do it.” Yeah, I know, how could I forego income because of “minor details”?
" Yeah, I know, how could I forego income because of “minor details”?
Actually, I can relate to that. I once quit a job, taking one for a 10% loss in pay, because of “minor details” 
I say it is a rare accident and the do gooders will probably want to stop the trains from passing each other like that even if it is not possible.
With all that crude going up I’m surprised we haven’t seen a spike in the price of gas.
I see it as Hans said it, it all comes down to human error and the little guy will pay.
$5 says those crying about stopping all oil trains have ties to those supporting the pipeline proposals …
Aircraft accidents the same. When all else has failed…blame the pilot…
Yeah I read the updated report that the trains were passing or about to pass when the soybean train derailed. I would say that is pretty rare. I still think we are jumping the gun when it comes to banning oil trains, but I’m most likely preaching to the choir here.
Two universal forms of exercise: Jumping to Conclusions and Jumping the Gun.
Maybe in your country Hans. Just for you all info I was a Track Safety Specialist for 31 years in the FRA. Per your request Nick. Later RJD