I’m surprised you had to ask!
It’s your type of question.
As one who bought Wyes from a commercial manufacturer, let me tell you this isn’t so simple in practice. A #6 Wye maybe a #6 wye in that it diverges at a ratio of 1 to 6. And a frog is a frog is a frog. But what you call a Wye made with a particular frog may not be called by the manufacturer the same thing as the frog.
When I ordered my my Wye from Llagas, I ordered a #6 Wye. Daniel then called me on the phone and asked if I wanted it made with a #6 frog or if I wanted the wye to have the same divergence from center as a #6 turnout. If I wanted it to match a #6 switch it would have to be made with a #3 frog. In my case I was building a wye track with #6 turnouts and wanted to match that geometry on the point. I am glad he asked because I need a wye made with a #3 frog and not one with a #6. I believe Llagas labels them (I would say correctly) by labeling them according to the frog used.
But the point is to someone like me who is not turnout savvy and is learning, I wrongly assumed that a #6 switch and a #6 wye would diverge from a a center line at the same rate. I understand now why I am incorrect thanks to Daniel.
Thanks for putting my mind at ease, despite the clutter I saw the light!
John
Edit: “But the point is to someone like me who is not turnout savvy and is learning, I wrongly assumed that a #6 switch and a #6 wye would diverge from a a center line at the same rate. I understand now why I am incorrect thanks to Daniel.”
counter point:
Not quite right my friend, the tracks do diverge at the same rate, but there is no tangent in the middle, consider building two #6 and then join the frogs back to back while eliminating the center tangents, the resulting frog is 2X#6 or a #3. See?
No bad on the first cup o joe.
John
Devon Sinsley said:
As one who bought Wyes from a commercial manufacturer, let me tell you this isn’t so simple in practice. A #6 Wye maybe a #6 wye in that it diverges at a ratio of 1 to 6. And a frog is a frog is a frog. But what you call a Wye made with a particular frog may not be called by the manufacturer the same thing as the frog.
When I ordered my my Wye from Llagas, I ordered a #6 Wye. Daniel then called me on the phone and asked if I wanted it made with a #6 frog or if I wanted the wye to have the same divergence from center as a #6 turnout. If I wanted it to match a #6 switch it would have to be made with a #3 frog. In my case I was building a wye track with #6 turnouts and wanted to match that geometry on the point. I am glad he asked because I need a wye made with a #3 frog and not one with a #6. I believe Llagas labels them (I would say correctly) by labeling them according to the frog used.
But the point is to someone like me who is not turnout savvy and is learning, I wrongly assumed that a #6 switch and a #6 wye would diverge from a a center line at the same rate. I understand now why I am incorrect thanks to Daniel.
Exactly Devon :). I reference my quote in one of my earlier posts:
“I used Sunset Valley switches on my layout and they are engineered and built the same as the prototype. I used a #4 WYE (14 degree, 1 in 4 with a 90 inch radius) and #6 left/right switches (9.5 degree, 1 in 6 with a 90 inch radius). My purpose was to hold to a 90 inch radius MINIMUM on the layout. Radii was more important to me than the frog number.”
See, I blame Devon. It was his post on this matter that caused me to slip my moorings, to let go of my handlebars. Not that it matters, I’m going to use the #6 frog to build my wye, and worry about its name later.
Go Cubs! Wye? Because! Oh, that’s our third baseman.
I think the crux of the issue is folks tend to use the number of the frog, and the number of the switch (turnout, wye, etc.) interchangeably. Congratulations Devon, you with your experience purchasing your track work have learned the reality. Remove from your mind any hard relationship between the frog and the track configuration it is used in. As I said above…a frog is a frog is frog.
I posted the source of the stolen graphic with the express intent that some would spend a little time and research and learn a bit of RR engineering to better understand how things work. I have several RR engineering documents saved at home, all available on the internet. I prefer the ones from near the turn of the century as they are written in terms I can easier understand, with the math that goes with it. Google books can be your friend.
Bob C.
John Caughey said:
Edit: “But the point is to someone like me who is not turnout savvy and is learning, I wrongly assumed that a #6 switch and a #6 wye would diverge from a a center line at the same rate. I understand now why I am incorrect thanks to Daniel.”
counter point:
Not quite right my friend, the tracks do diverge at the same rate, but there is no tangent in the middle, consider building two #6 and then join the frogs back to back while eliminating the center tangents, the resulting frog is 2X#6 or a #3. See?
No bad on the first cup o joe.
John
Thats why i said diverge from a center line meaning as if there was a tangent in the middle.
Ribit.
Devon Sinsley said:
Fred Mills said:
Is Devon involved with this question ?..!!
How did I get brought into this?
Gee, when the conversation goes off on a tangent, and gets mired in confusion it almost has to be a Devon thread.
But Devon learned what I was trying to say. A #3 frog, in a Wye, makes each leg diverge like each leg is the diverging leg of a number 6.
this post has been edited by: rooster
Devon Sinsley said:
John Caughey said:
Edit: “But the point is to someone like me who is not turnout savvy and is learning, I wrongly assumed that a #6 switch and a #6 wye would diverge from a a center line at the same rate. I understand now why I am incorrect thanks to Daniel.”
counter point:
Not quite right my friend, the tracks do diverge at the same rate, but there is no tangent in the middle, consider building two #6 and then join the frogs back to back while eliminating the center tangents, the resulting frog is 2X#6 or a #3. See?
No bad on the first cup o joe.
John
Thats why i said diverge from a center line meaning as if there was a tangent in the middle.
Oh.Ok.
After the second cup, I no longer cared…
Carry on.