Large Scale Central

WSRR 1st Turnout Build

Track and Trestles
#1

Not sure how it happened, but somehow, I have managed to build a #4 turnout. It has taken me about 24 total hours but its done and to my surprise it actually works. Well sort of. I still have to add the throw bar. Haven’t settled on exactly how I want to handle that. I’ll get that figured out this week. But I have run several different pieces of rolling stock through it with no derailments in either direction. It looks like a bulls a… tied up with a barbed wire fence but heck its my first one. They will get better. Anyway, I started by cutting the ties out of oak (first mistake) and then making a jig to hold the ties during construction. Oh, BTW, I am not using any type of backer board or splines. The tie jig as shown below worked well until I started driving spikes and then the ties wanted to slide out the side that’s not confined.

Ties

Jig

Ties in Jig

Unfortunately, due to many frustrations throughout this brutal process, I did not take any intermediate photos, sorry. Now that I am confident I can do this and have figured out most of my mistakes, I’ll do a better job of documenting the entire process on the next one. So here it is. Questions, comments and criticisms welcome. Just remember, its my first one, so be easy.

I’m tired of driving spikes I think there are like 264 spikes in that one turnout. Not to mention the untold number that I had to pull because I bent them trying to drive them into oak. I finally started predrilling each one and that made life much better. Just think, I only have about … never mind… I don’t want to think how many I have left to build. Just take’em one at a time Dan!!!

#2

I was just about to suggest predrilling holes in what is obviously oak, until I read your last paragraph. I’m sure it will get quite a lot quicker.

Did you put anything under the frog to reinforce the joint? Soft solder will eventually fracture, it’s not good at tension.

Greg

#3

My scratch-built switch was fine for a few years, and then it started to warp a bit. When I rebuilt it, I used a spline, and the rebuilt switch lasted a lot longer in service. In fact the only reason I took it out of service, is that it was a tad too sharp for my largest locomotives. So you may want to reconsider your decision of not using a spline.

I think it looks a lot better they your assessment of it. And since it works, you did it right.

#4

Greg, it currently does not have any reinforcement at the frog. When I take it out of the jig, I plan to solder some copper or brass strips under the bottom. I should have done that in the beginning, but I was really just trying to prove to myself I could do this. I am making a list of improvements for the next one so thank you for pointing that out.

David, I will be building the layout with spline roadbed so it will get mounted to that. Do you think that will be sufficient?

#5

On my latest,batch of switches I used longer nails which pass through the ties (pressure treated pine) into the spine strips which are basically under the rails. Good and strong. Helps to hold the ties in the proper place. My older switches without the spine the ties migrated.

Perhaps you can work out spine strips which inter weave the spline road base? Could help tie the switch into place. I would not get too carried away nailing the switch to the slide road bed.

Another idea for the frog…perhaps you could drill through the soldered joint and use a little bolt to keep the joint solid? I use silver solder which is really strong! That is another option but it takes much more heat.

#6

Dan,

I will echo some of the above with some of my own. First, definitely pre drill the oak ties. Oak is hard material. I am not sure, but I will ask…Is that red or white oak? If memory serves, red oak will not last a long as white oak in outdoor environments with out additional preservative. I would used pressure treated as Eric has suggested. Second, get spikes that are longer than the tie is deep and bend them over after installation, they will not tend to back out that way, or add a bit of ACC when installing the spikes. You may also want to look up SwitchCrafters. They make a real nice spiker that is used by several folks on here … Bruce Chandler or Jon Radder come to mind … and I am sure others as well.

Definitely add a reinforcing plate (say .020 sheet) under the frog, and use silver solder. More heat, more work, but do it once. You will need to notch the ties in the area of the frog, but it will be well worth the effort. Also bring the solder further back from the frog points in the crotch of the frog, that will also help strengthen the frog.

It might also strengthen the switch as a whole if you were to also add reinforcing under the guard rails and eliminate the spikes in between the stock and guard rails. Won’t look a prototypical but will most likely be better functionally.

I don’t see any electrical isolation in the point rails. Unless you are planning on total batter or live steam I would recommend some isolation to keep from shorting out on the points should you have a wheel set that is a bit narrow on the gauge. Using some isolators will also make the throw easier on the switch machine, what ever you choose to use.

#7

Nice looking switch, especially for a first attempt!

Just a couple of small comments. I pre-drilled my redwood sleepers, using a small cordless Dremel. I only used 1 spike where you have two. And the point rails, in your frog photo, don’t seem lined up quite the same - one is further back than the other, which suggests the gap at that side will be larger. There are lots of choices for the tie rod - brass tube with screws or pins from the rail bottom web, or a wood strip.

#8

Dan Hilyer said:
… but I was really just trying to prove to myself I could do this.

Call it a concept study, feasibility study, alpha test, sort of thing?

The, “Ya know, I wonder if …” stage of design.

#9

Thanks, everyone for the valuable information. That is what I need to get better at this.

Eric, on future frogs, I plan to solder a copper strip to the bottom or maybe even between the webbing at the foot to help reinforce it.

Bob, it didn’t take long to realize the oak must be predrilled. You can drive the spikes without it, but life is less frustrating with predrilling. The ties are a mixture of red and white oak. You can definitely tell the difference when driving the spikes even after predrilling. Those going in the red oak could almost be pushed 3/4 of the way in. Not with white oak, I was lucky to get it far enough that it would stand on its own. Red oak is not as weather resistant white oak, not by a long shot, but I will paint/stain all the ties before they go outside. Again, this one was just to get my feet wet and convince myself I could get it done. Lots of changes going forward, especially thanks to the input received here. I am very familiar with SwitchCrafters. Have bought a lot of rail from Bruce and I have the spiker. It is not designed to use the ½” spikes only the 3/8”. It is actually laying on the bench there in the first picture with the finished switch, top right corner. I will give the silver solder a try. I use it a lot with large copper pipe at work so plenty of experience with it just didn’t think it would be necessary here, but I have no issue using it. As far as electrical isolation, I will be all battery so no isolation needed. But thanks for pointing that out.

Pete, Good catch on the difference in the alignment of the point rails. The diverging rail is set closer to the frog to get the rails to line up. The first time I installed it it was slightly misaligned and the wheel on that side kept picking the frog and derailing. That point rail was the most difficult piece of the entire build. The one shown there is actually the second attempt. The first one I made was …… well…. let’s just say it was bad. Somehow, as I was bending it (by hand) I got it twisted just slightly and that spelled disaster. So, I threw it away and cut another one and this time got my rail bender out and that worked much better. I have ordered some Ten Mile throws from Bruce at SwitchCrafters. Once they get here I will add the throw bar and get it all buttoned up. I have also ordered some composite ties from Bruce. I’ll see how I like those.

Forrest, you hit the nail …. Um… spike on the head. The next one will include most of the suggestions here plus a few changes of my own I want to make. So, standby, more to come.

Again, thanks to everyone for all the help.