Speaking of Goofy and Gummi,
has anyone scaled the LGB/Astor WP&Y Mike?
And what did it scale out to.
jb
"Suitable for “G-Gauge.”
John Bouck said:Dear Mr Bouck and others - about four years ago, and in response to a similar question on another well-known forum, I acquired the Baldwin Locomotive Works plans of #73 from Mr Mulvihill in Skagway, and sat down with a calculator and a pair of electronic calipers, with my Aster LGB White Pass loco in front of me.
Speaking of Goofy and Gummi, has anyone scaled the LGB/Astor WP&Y Mike? And what did it scale out to. jb
As expected, the bits made by ASTER [everything except the mechanism and wheels], were as near dammit to 1/22.5 as makes no discernible difference except to the anal - a matter of a scale 3/4" in the length of cab.
The driving wheels, however, the carry-over from the LGB mikado chassis/mechanism and used in the WP mike as it was available and did not need a new project, are approximately 4.25 scale inches too large in diameter. They SHOULD be 44" and on the model they are 48.25". It really DOES look different because of that, but hey, if you wanted a WP mike it was the only game in town, and still is to this day.
In answer to your question, then.
Yes, I HAVE scaled the ASTER/LGB WP&Y mike.
It scales out at precisely 1:22.5 except for the driving wheels.
Hope this helps.
tac
Mr Bouck - isn’t that what you wanted to hear?
If not, how can I otherwise help you?
tac
Terry A de C Foley said:
Mr Bouck - isn't that what you wanted to hear?If not, how can I otherwise help you?
tac
www.ovgrs.org
Thank you, TAC.
Now I would like to see if some one has scaled out the Uintah and the Sumpter Valley.
John
Personally I haven’t measured one but the topic was brought up on the “other forum” some time ago and If I’m not mistaken came in around 1:28 to 1:29 scale, not the 1:22.5 most thought it was.
The Uintah articulateds were HUGE beasts - 10’ 7" wide across the tanks, and 46’ 10" from pilot to pilot. (13’ 5.5" to the top of the smokestack). That’s comparable to a standard gauge locomotive. Without having one to measure in front of me, but knowing LGB’s “everything must be the same size” philosophy, it would follow that the locomotive would scale out around 1:29ish, as David suggests.
Note that when Baldwin was pimping similar articulated designs to various railroads (such as the one being incarnated by Bachmann), they shrank the loco’s proportions a bit, as most narrow gauge lines didn’t have clearances for a 10’ wide locomotive.
Later,
K
LGB Uintah is best described as close to 1:24 (only the wheels are about 1:28) Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
Terry A de C Foley said:Terry, the worst thing about these wheels is the wrong number of spokes - (too many!!) The problem with LGB wheels is that they only have about four or five rim sizes available. So they use whatever they think comes close (but can still be quite far off). One size smaller than the Mike size scaling to 48.25" as you pointed out is the Mogul wheel size (39"). These suit the Mogul perfectly but they would be 5 scale inches too small for the WP&Y Mikes and that would show even more on the inside frame locomotive than 4.25" too large... Really, they should have just made new wheels for these Mikes but then they would have had to make a new drive too... and the entire project would cost more $$$ plus the Mikes would not be ready for Christmas (2002 if I remember correctly). The trouble is that partly due to this wheel and drive issue, they are still there on some shop shelves even for Christmas 2008... Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi PS But the K-28 with Mogul wheels (5 scale inches too small) sold like hot cakes because noone ever noticed;-)..., plus they are the best running LGB engines ever made IMHO
[...]The driving wheels, however, the carry-over from the LGB mikado chassis/mechanism and used in the WP mike as it was available and did not need a new project, are approximately 4.25 scale inches too large in diameter. They SHOULD be 44" and on the model they are 48.25". It really DOES look different because of that, but hey, if you wanted a WP mike it was the only game in town, and still is to this day.[...]
Thanks, guys!
I was wondrin why my Uintahs and Sumpter valleys were SO MUCH SMALLER than the WP&Y mike!!!
That’s why I asked for a scale measurement.
I hate LGB more and more everyday!
You would think, that since they had to do the tooling for the Uintah in the first place, they would at least make it the same as the other stuff, 1:22.5, or even, heaven forbid, 1:20.3.
What are those guys thinking!!!
I am going to change both of them into 1:32 logging mallets on standard gauge track, and paint over the lettering.
j
Quote:John, I call it the "airport carry-on mentality." You know those plastic "guides" at the airport that tell you the absolute largest your carry-on bag can be? I'm convinced that LGB had one of those things at the end of their production line. The model had to fit through. That's why you've got such diminutive locos as the 0-4-0 Porter or Forney being just as large as the Uintah mallet or F-7. From a scale perspective, it's enough to drive one mad. From an "everything must play together regardless" toy perspective, it makes a degree of sense.
... What are those guys thinking!!!
Look at it this way–when you take the ubiquitous mogul, Porter, and even the Forney into consideration, they were making 1:20 models without knowing it. (The mogul needs some cosmetic tweaks, but it scales well.)
Later,
K
Sadly, the Aster/LGB White Pass mike is built to the incorrect scale for the gauge. It should be 1/20.3, of course, to run on 45mm gauge track replicating the WP&YR 3 foot gauge, and NOT 1/22.5.
But as I pointed out, is IS 99.9% built to 22.5 scale.
tac
John, I can’t beleive my eyes. You wrote something bad about the red box guys. What next “Bachmann make nice stuff???” well that might be pushing it. LOL
Kevin Strong said:
Look at it this way--when you take the ubiquitous mogul, Porter, and even the Forney into consideration, they were making 1:20 models without knowing it. (The mogul needs some cosmetic tweaks, but it scales well.)Later,
K
Kevin, the LBG Mogul is 1:22.5, one of the more accurately scaled models, and the wheels are perfectly 39", although drivers spacing is problematic (but it differed among various C&S Moguls and predecessors anyway). Best, Zubi
PS The Forney classifies as 1:20 only along the height (think cab doors and windows), it is too short (especially the coal bunker) to represent the true SR&RL #21 in 1:20, but OK as a generic idea - you can adapt almost any locomotive to your scale by changing the cab doors dimensions.
Terry A de C Foley said:
Sadly, the Aster/LGB White Pass mike is built to the incorrect scale for the gauge. It should be 1/20.3, of course, to run on 45mm gauge track replicating the WP&YR 3 foot gauge, and NOT 1/22.5.But as I pointed out, is IS 99.9% built to 22.5 scale.
tac
www.ovgrs.org
Rather, Terry, it is built to the incorrect gauge for the scale;-)!!! It should be gauged for 40.7mm of course! Although some people would probably consider this somewhat impractical;-)… Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi (pefrectly happy with his WP&Y Mike scale except for the wheel spokes!)
Zubi, my point isn’t so much that the models are (or are not) accurate in their stated scale, just that LGB’s “carry-on” mentality means that some models actually work quite nicely in a different scale. In the case of the Forney and Porter, they don’t even need new cabs. No, they’re not “accurate” for any single prototype, but they are definitely plausible for the style of locomotive. For the freelancer, they’re a fantastic resource. For the purist, it wouldn’t matter. No one who accurately models the D&RGW–in any scale–would ever have a forney on the front of their train.
Later,
K
Kevin Strong said:
Zubi, my point isn't so much that the models are (or are not) accurate in their stated scale, just that LGB's "carry-on" mentality means that some models actually work quite nicely in a different scale. In the case of the Forney and Porter, they don't even need new cabs. No, they're not "accurate" for any single prototype, but they are definitely plausible for the style of locomotive. For the freelancer, they're a fantastic resource. For the purist, it wouldn't matter. No one who accurately models the D&RGW--in any scale--would ever have a forney on the front of their train.Later,
K
Kevin, I agree with this full 100%. The Porter set was my first LGB purchase and the Forney was my first ‘real’ LGB engine (both were affordable for me at that time while the Mogul was not). Generally, back in 80’s and early 90’s the tendency was still to use generic locomotives for your own real garden railroad - not that many folks wanted to do modelling of some specific prototype railways. In any case, you are right that the both the Forney and the Porter work pretty well in 1:20 without any modifications. The Mogul and the #50 D&RGW diesel work great in 1:22.5 and the Uintah is better suited to 1:24 scale, if one cares about overall dimensions. For the purist, none of these relatively early models are up to the standards of the brass (and recently plastic) engines currently on the market, for any of the scales of choice 1:22.5, 15mm or 16mm. Still, there is a certain charm to the ‘plastic in the petunias’ approach to model railroading, it required a lot more ingenuity and creativity than the current trend of ‘K + gramps in the petunias’. But it is good that there is so much choice these days, alhough for me, a bit too late perhaps - live steam cares al bit less about appearance more about performance and the bigger the better (on narrow track of course!!!) Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
LGB had a chance to build the Davenport #50 correctly and even screwed that up by a little.
It is the closest model to 1:20.3 they have.
That would have easily been tooled in 1:20.3, but, no.
I still don’t know what they were thinking, unless there R&D had not a clue.
John, where do you get your data? The LBG #50 is 1:22.5 as close as it gets! Of course everyone wanted it to be 1:22.5 so there it is! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
John Bouck said:It's quite simple really - a bit like me - when LGB started up back in 1967 or so there was no such modelling scale as Fn3/1:20.3 running on 45mm track representing three-foot gauge.
LGB had a chance to build the Davenport #50 correctly and even screwed that up by a little. It is the closest model to 1:20.3 they have. That would have easily been tooled in 1:20.3, but, no. I still don't know what they were thinking, unless there R&D had not a clue.
Being a GERMAN company, surrounded by German, Austrian, Belgian, French, and the extensive Swiss METRE gauge railroads in Europe, they looked very hard at 45mm track and said ‘Aha!!! THIS can be used to represent METRE gauge in 1/22.5 scale - let’s do it! [mostly]’.
And behold, that’s what they did.
Anyhing that came along after that, including US stuff, was purely incidental, as a look at any LGB catalogue over the years will surely show you.
Germans are a parochial lot, to tell the truth, from my experience of having lived among them for almost ten years of my military career - they like European models, and although there is the odd Deutscher who might express an interest in US-stuff, they were, and still are, pretty rare. Which is why the 1:22.5 scale known as IIm thrives in Germany and the rest of Europe - with serious makers producing seriously expensive models in this scale - invented by LGB. A visit to a German model railway show will leave you gaping with the range of models and equipment for this scale, with every more arriving seemingly by the minute.
In spite of thirty years of prodding, they never once produced a British model of any kind, in spite that LGB’s second-largest customer base was the enormous UK market. In case you think I am exaggerating and that, of course, the US just has to be the second biggest, let me remind you that there are still well over a hundred and fifty LGB-only layouts in this country valued at over $1M. I was actually in one well-known supplier when a guy turned up with the then-current catalogue and bought one of everything in stock that was in it - around $160K, and then emptied the store of ALL it’s LGB track - another $100K. His grandson had seen it at Hamleys toy store in London, but he lived locally to the store, and preferred to give them his business.
From my own POV, I am less than interested in LGB, but in spite of having sold off thirteen large LGB locos, I still have over twenty of them left.
tac