I posted this same question on MLS hoping to get a broader opinion and ideas.
I know cedar is the choice for outdoor structures, but what would be the next best choice for outdoor use?..Travis
Redwood, Cypress, if you have a supplier nearby.
If you know of a hardwood lumber dealer, one that specializes in furniture grade hardwood, you may find other hardwoods that would be suitable for outdoor structures. I use Spanish Cedar for all my outdoor structures and railroad ties. .
Redwood works well for me, but then I have some left over from a deck rebuild.
Cedar has no structural strength, but that shouldn’t be a problem in our relatively small structures.
Redwood is always a good choice for constructing outdoor structures - buildings, bridges, trestle bents, etc. Redwood and cedar are naturally rot resistant, with redwood being the more dense wood.
Most the hardwoods - oak, hickory,elm, maple, mahogany, etc. are great for furniture projects, but need to be weatherproofed for outdoor use.
Did you have a specific preference based on availibility, ease of use or costs that is part of the question?
Specifically what are you trying to build?
Jerry
I like using cedar for my buildings since it is rot resistant, cheap and easy to rip up on the saw. Of course I do seal it with paint or stain to protect it. For trestles and bridges I have used mahogony which is a very hard wood and it stands up veyr well to the elements even without treating it. It starts off red then turns to grey over time. The only trouble working with it is it is hard and will wear out your saw blades faster, The dust is also very fine and will get everywhere. The wood also produces the finest slivers of splinters you will ever not see or feel until they get infected in a day or 2.
Besides all the bad I like it and still use it.
My buildings are glorified plywood boxes that are sheathed in cedar and they seem ot hold up pretty well as long as the plywood is sealed and rests either on a cement base or lifted off the ground. lately I have been using plastic wood as a “foundation” to lift the buildings of the ground.
Like Jerry said what are you trying to build?
Todd
Thanks Guys for input. I am not building anything in particular. I was just curious what others used. When you mention “Red Wood” is this in the cedar family?. I don’t much care for cedar but use it. It is very soft and sometimes splinters when ya cut it . How about Pine, oak, poplar, or basswood?. How would these hold up for structures if they wee sealed with clearcoat or something?. Just looking for feedback from those of you that have experience with this. I have buildings that I have scratch built, but they are made of pine and oak…Thanks, Travis
I think no matter what wood you use the most important thing is to keep it from getting wet. Paint it, glue it, stain it with a water sealer or oil based stain. Some of my nicer and smaller buildings come in for the winter but most are too big to move so they stay out.
Materials not to use is luan, particle board, and backer board. The backer board I have used for roofs have been painted and are OK but I had some extra pieces which i didn’t treat and used them as a 12" retaining wall near a fence and out of sight. In 2 years it has softened and cracked.
Our little buildings take a bigger beating than our full size houses do so depending on your climate you can expect your pine buildings to last 5-10 years.
Price wise I would use pine and seal it up tight.
Travis,
If you are going to use oak, use ‘White Oak’. It quite suited to outdoor applications. Read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_alba
Bob C.
A lot of that answer depends on where you live. In the western part of the country you can pick up Redwood at many lumber yards. Go east of the Mississippi and it becomes a speciality and very expensive wood to work with. I like cedar because its relatively easy to find on the east coast, not too expensive and usually straight grained (good for ripping down on the table saw). Cedar is also long lived outdoors without ground contact.
-Brian
Ok ,I live in western Ohio so we get all kinds of weather from Mother Nature. So ya’ll answered my questions. I really like to work with pine when it comes to the scale stuff cuz it doesn’t shatter or splinter like the cedar does. Although cedar does cut really nice as far as ripping. I have experienced on the end grain some rather rough edges no matter how slow i go when cutting. White oak have had some stuff happen to when cutting narrow strip wood it seems to want to shatter it as well when the work piece is narrow.
So thanks for all the input guys, I am going to have a very big bridge project comming up sometime this year and was looking for different options of wood to use…Travis
Travis,
There are two things to worry about when building outdoor projects. One is rot. The best REDUCED rot are Cedar and redwood. next would be walnut, cypress or sassafras and white oak. In a pinch with extreme care, white pine.Stay away from red oak, cherry, hemlock, balsa and basswood. The second issue with outdoor projects such as bridges is wood movement- warping, bending and twisting. Cypress, white oak, cherry and pressure treated yellow pine have a tendency to move a lot as they absorb moisture either from contact or the air. There are exotics such as ipe that are rot resistant, but I don’t know much about them as we do not sell them.
Travis,
To switch the subject just a little bit, you mentioned the rough edges…and I’m wondering what blade you are using. I find that the more teeth the blade has the less likely the rough edges will result.
I use hemlock for the substructure (frames) and cedar and redwood for the finishing.
I bring my buildings in for the winter, so can’t say how long they would last. But so far–so good.
Mahogany works well for outdoor applications, as does teak, but they are spendy and hard on saw blades.
Re large bridge:
If this bridge is to span wide distances unsupported between piers, then tight grain dense materials would be the best. Redwood or white oak would be my recommendation. The straighter the grain the less likelihood of warp or twisting.
What design bridge are you planning to build?
Re splittering:
I suggest using a 60 tooth or greater carbide tooth blade - assuming you are using a table or radial arm saw. A good sharp blade will also diminish splintering.
PS - Having lived in Ohio for my first 26 years, I can appreciate the challenges involved with extreme weather. Remember to also plan for expansion and contraction due to humidity as well as temperature.
Jerry
Travis,
Another option for cutting on the table saw or radial is a good quality hollow ground planer blade. This is all I use now, gave up on the carbides, too rough no matter how many teeth. This does however REQUIRE your fence to be absolutely parallel with your blade. For cross cuts I use a plain hollow ground plywood blade in 10" my chop saw. Every so often I replace the auxiliary fence I add to the saw for model cutting. Add the fence, then slowly bring the blade down through it. This helps a lot with the ‘fuzz’ you commented on.
Bob C.
The table Saw trick I use for the “rough cut timber” look for my bridges, is.… Buy a cheep 7 1/4" 12 tooth rip carbide blade, Then take and bend (yah bend) a couple of teeth opposite each other out of alignment in each direction left and right. Yah it runes the blade for regular cutting, But the bent teeth leave a roughed up finnish to the timbers. The faster the feed rate, the rougher the cut
I have never seen a bridge timber or beam that was ever sent thru a planer, All were “Mill cut”
Dave,
That’s a neat trick to produce rough sawn timbers, but I believe Travis was going for the finished look. I am not yet at the bridge or structure building phase, but I keep up on the tips and tricks.
Bob C.
… I avoid both paint and wood sealer of all kinds for outdoor work. I just let my wooden structures age naturally like an old barn. They do fine, year after year, summer and winter. One trick is to keep moisture from entering the end grain, but the main thing is to keep the building away from ground contact. I make sure there is plenty of air circulation in, around and through any wooden structure. For example, I avoid glazing windows, and don’t add interior partitions. Mahogany and cedar I prefer as they resist rot, but pine and other woods also work ok if they’re kept dry, or allowed to dry thoroughly between soakings.