Large Scale Central

Wooden Box Car info.

Prototypes
#1

OK so I am starting to make some box cars for my RR. For those that don’t know this is 1880’s vintage narrow gauge. I am trying to find out some prototypical information.

First question, In looking at pictures I can clearly tell what a typical wooden box car roof is made of. They didn’t take many pictures of the roof. Was it planked, was it metal, was it tar paper, or??? I am not looking to match my prototype exactly I just want a typical roof of that era.

Next question, on my prototype pictures I can see that it has data info but can not clearly make it out. I have clear shots of 30’ flats and it has WT and it has CAPY. in all cases the WT is left blank and the CAPY is 16000. On a picture of a model of D&RGW that looks to be about the same size box car it says CAPY os 20000 and WT is 8350. Would these be reasonable numbers to use for my data? The only reason I ask is this mean the capacity of the box car is way higher than my flats. would this be normal or should the capacity be lower?

Basically any help on what a narrow gauge wooden box car from the 1880’s looks like would be helpful. I now there is a ton of different ones but this is a generic 30 box car. Internal framed.

#2

Here is how Phil’s Narrow Gauge approaches the problem. Its as good as any place to start. 30 ft. Boxcar

As far as capacity of the cars, 'fraid I’m not much use. I’d probably go with what’s in the photos, though I can’t give you a solid reason why.

#3

Looks to be a wooden batten board construction with a smooth roof not planked.

#4

Only a few min.of time right now. What your looking at as far as Phils kits are a D&RG 3000 series, 25 ton box cars, Built in 1904, as rebuilt in 1926. The roof is what is called a “Murphy” roof, and that was added in the 26’ rebuild, As original built they had a inside steel roof, protected by 1" x 6" T&G board roof, sealed with 4, coats of heavy paint. After the re-build, they had the murphy roof, on top of the 1x6 T&G boards.

I have pics of the T&G stuff, but I will have to dig them up.

#5

Thanks Dave. What little I have seen on the internet shows planking and one site even showed tongue and groove. My pictures just look smooth but they are bad pictures. Looking at them closer the thickness would be about right for 1X6 or maybe 2X6. And if heavily painted they would look smooth especially in these photos. Here is the best picture I have of them:

Here is another one that has snow on the roof and shows another with the roof off. Maybe this will help.

I I can see where the trusses have stringers across them where T&G planking could be attached.

#6

Devon,

I googled ‘freight box car roof’ and got some interesting results. The answer to your question is a Double Board roof. Here’s a treatise about 19th century Carter Bros boxcars:

TheRoofProblem_By_Randy_Hees.pdf

I believe there’s some info in the bible (White’s “American Freight Cars”) but I’m not home. If you are still asking next week I will look it up.

#7

Well, not really knowing any better (at the time), and trying to copy the look on model boxcars from certain manufacturers, I put pieces of tar paper (roofing felt) on my boxcar, and covered the seams with strips of wood, painted with charcoal coloured paint.

While its probably not prototypical, it looks good to me.

#8

I am a volunteer a theWW&F railway museum. We have two box cars…a replica based on original drawings ca 1908 and a rebuilt car of somewhat older original vintage. Both have tin roofs. The tin came in sheets maybe 2x4 feet. Nailed down around the edges, overlapping each other and soldered. First course of sheets along the side of the roof, second across the middle. Two foot gauge cars are about 6 1/2 feet wide. Three foot gauge cars would be wider and I suppose have several courses of tin sheets.

#9

Pete Thornton said:

Devon,

I googled ‘freight box car roof’ and got some interesting results. The answer to your question is a Double Board roof. Here’s a treatise about 19th century Carter Bros boxcars:

TheRoofProblem_By_Randy_Hees.pdf

I believe there’s some info in the bible (White’s “American Freight Cars”) but I’m not home. If you are still asking next week I will look it up.

Thats a great site Pete. Everything you ever wanted to know about a box car roof. I will have to read that one through. This is why I love LSC. I looked and just didn’t type the right words I guess. Amazing how one can search and come up with nothing and others find exactly what your looking for. It nie to have so much help.

#10

Eric Schade said:

I am a volunteer a theWW&F railway museum. We have two box cars…a replica based on original drawings ca 1908 and a rebuilt car of somewhat older original vintage. Both have tin roofs. The tin came in sheets maybe 2x4 feet. Nailed down around the edges, overlapping each other and soldered. First course of sheets along the side of the roof, second across the middle. Two foot gauge cars are about 6 1/2 feet wide. Three foot gauge cars would be wider and I suppose have several courses of tin sheets.

Any chance of a picture. This sounds intriguing.

#11

Some great ideas and examples. I might have to have some re-roof versions so that I can justify (to myself) why my box cars don’t all look the same.

#12

What era are you going to model? Certain Dates are important, as FRA made some mandatory changes efective.

#13

Devon: Find a friend who has a set of NMRA Data sheets. section D5; there you will find all the data you need to build to scale. Also brake system details as well.

Paul A

#14

Cool. I did a double board roof for my reefer; it’s a bit later time period than you are modeling, but I would imagine the construction is similar. I used 3/16" x 1/32" basswood for the strips.

#15

Oh yes, just like people, all box cars look the same, are the same weight, height and …

heheheh

Identical!

1917 standard ga., but all sorts of construction at a time when standards were being developed…

Happy Rails.

John

#16

Dave Taylor said:

What era are you going to model? Certain Dates are important, as FRA made some mandatory changes efective.

1880’s Dave. The prototype ran from 86 to 1897. And even within that I am most interested in the pre-90’s era.

#17

John Caughey said:

Oh yes, just like people, all box cars look the same, are the same weight, height and …

heheheh

Actually John,

The very few clear photos I have of this RR’s equipment through out its short life the box cars all look identical. Lettering schemes very and the converted box cars to caboose have some differences but not much even then. The flats all look the same also. Different lettering but the construction looks identical.

But with that said I fear it is far more and issue of me having some weird defect that I have that makes me like uniformity in such things. In all reality your right it would likely be more prototypical that they look different. Even if they did all come from the same supplier and looked the same from the show room they were used and abused and likely roofs were repaired or replaced several times.

So with all the roof ideas pouring in it will likely build four different styles of roofs just because I can. Damn my stubborn streak. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)I really need to learn that I need to do what makes me happy instead of what I am worried would look prototypical.

#18

Bruce I like that roof. That is a good look for the T&G planked roof.

#19

Yes it’s likely your RR’s buyer found a car and price he liked and made a few bulk purchases. Also repairs as you say, or a change at the factory. Back then, New and Improved was still the order of the day…

Storyline: 1899; leaky roofs, Mr Murphy claims a better seal, Arf!

John

#20

In the 1880’s, I’ll bet that they had a T&G wood roof, ether single or double layer. Small RR’s then, either bought all new equipment, or grabbed up someone else’s, gone under, rolling stock. If the pics that you have seen, show that they all look alike, it’s most likely that they started with all new stock. In that era, most cars were in the 22 to 28 foot range and had about a 20 ton rating ± a few tons. Remember that in that time there wasn’t big loco power. The 4-4-0 was king and 4-6-0s and 2-6-0s 2-8-0s were just beginning to see service. Large cars, and heavy loads, could quickly overload a small engines ability to get them about, especially in a mountainous region.

Even the 1905 new cars on the D&RG for NG service were only 30ft. and 20-25 ton limit. Earlier cars I believe (i’ll have to verify) were 24-26 footers. Notice in the pic that John C. posted, there are some short and smaller cars still in service into 1917, notice even an outside braced car. Cheep RRs ran them as long as possible until they literally fell apart, or the FRA outlawed them from interchange service, and even then they would keep them running with in their own system.