Large Scale Central

Wish me Luck! New Benchwork

Track and Trestles
#1

The weather turned nice. Real nice. So I decided to get the timbers for my benchwork.

Because I am building on a terraced hillside, I need about 3 feet more width at either end to manage a loop at either end. This also will allow some space for structures.

As I stood at Home Depot looking at the 2x4’s I had a sudden image of a panicked deer, charging down the slope, and jumping on the platform at the bottom. So, it’s 2x6 framing. Only a few bucks more.

Make that dollars, not bucks.

Miter saw, biscuits, lag bolts and glue coming up!

#2

Hehe! Yeh those stupid deer always seem to go where you don’t want 'em. I originally was going to enclose my bench work to look like a row of planter beds (hollow inside) for looks but the deer decided they liked to duck underneath to pass through. Figured that was better than having them try to jump over or on everything so the sides were left open. Not a single incident of a deer on the railroad unlike when I had it in the dirt slightly above ground level. :slight_smile:

Good luck on your bench work. I think you’ll have better luck using deck screws without glue and PT lumber outdoors though. Just a suggestion.

#3

I’ll second the deck screws. Get the square drive ones, and spend the money (maybe $15) for a good insert set for your screw gun. Saves a lot of aggravation. I’m sold on the benchwork idea, even when its ground level. Majestic is done that way here.

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/bob_mccown/Trackwork/Majestic/extension_4.jpg)

#4

I liked the square bits Bob, but I found that after a while the corners started to wear and the bit would slip easily. I switched to the star bit and like it more. The bits last a lot longer.

#5

Deck screws for a 2x6? Seems a little flimsy. Oh sure, for the decking, there’s nothing better, hence the name, but for the framing, well, I like something with a good amount of heft (and shear strength), especially as I want to make it strong enough for a deer to jump on.

The biscuits and glue are just for alignment.

#6

Forget the biscuits and glue…just go with the deck screws…but don’t skrimp on them…Clamp all pieces before you screw them together…don’t skrimp on clamps either. The clamps make life so much easier…get the 6’ size, and at least 4 of them.
You won’t find a glue that will give enough additional hold to be worth the cost, so forget it. As far as the biscuits…forget it; you aren’t building furnature, just use the clamps, then enough deck screws. You will be surprised how much weight, two 3" deck screws will hold when attaching a 2x4, to a 4x4…if properly clamped before screwing.

Don’t forget, I’ve been using benchwork for over 20 years…yes, use PT lumber, and remember on the decking…“Cupside down”.

Good luck        Check out the OVGRS web page at: www.ovgrs.org/    for pictures of our benchwork and roadbed.
#7

Yea, deck screws. We’re not talking about drywall screws, but the thicker, wide-thread, epoxy coated construction screws. Both our decks are built with them, and the big one at my folks house.

#8
Michael Moradzadeh said:
Deck screws for a 2x6? Seems a little flimsy. Oh sure, for the decking, there's nothing better, hence the name, but for the framing, well, I like something with a good amount of heft (and shear strength), especially as I want to make it strong enough for a deer to jump on.

The biscuits and glue are just for alignment.


Suit yourself. I’m not against overkill and lag bolts should work quite well. Much better than under building for sure. My concern was for the glue. Wood can move a lot outdoors with wide swings in temperature and moisture as well as load. Glue and biscuits are great for furniture but they don’t allow for movement. Alignment is easy with ladder type roadbed as you can bridge the bench work joints. Just don’t put roadbed joints directly above the bench work joints.

I suggest studying deck construction in your area paying particular attention to how the legs are handled. If your frost line is too deep (which shouldn’t be problem in Tiburon) to make planting the bench work legs so far then use cement piers as the guys up in Canada do. If you follow the general practices for building a deck framework as used in your area by reliable contractors for your bench work then you should have no problem with the railroad.

Please note that I’m not trying to tell you what to do but merely relaying my own experiences for your consideration in the hopes of being some help to you.

Most of my bench work has been in use since 2004-5 and is entirely PT wood held together with good quality deck screws although I prefer phillips head over the square drive personally. The only deck screw failure I’ve had is when a bear went crashing beneath a section of bench work and broke off two screws. I guess the height was a trifle too low. hehe! At that he broke part of one section from another but the damage stopped there. Had the screws held he certainly would have lifted several sections up and out of alignment. Then I would have had a much bigger job fixing things.

#9

Hey Fred! You must have posted while I was typing in my usual one finger at a time style. Great that you mentioned clamps. I used them for my RR construction too.

#10

Yep…what they all said. Good old 3 - 3 1/2" Coated deck screws are all I used for our sundeck nearly 20 years ago. Still as sturdy as it was when I built it. Two screws for 2x4 and three for 2x6 at each joint.

#11
Fred Mills said:
...get the 6' size, and at least 4 of them.
I agree with ALL of Fred's advice here. The biggest favour I could do for you is to repeat it all, loudly! Or tie you down until you agree to do it his way!

I’m just no sure what he does with six-foot clamps, though. :frowning:

#12

Listen to Randy on the amount of screws per joint. You can put too many screws in, this weakens the wood in that area. Deck screws are more than enough for building decking. They been used for decades, dont reinvent the wheel.

#13

As all have said here, use deck screws, not drywall screws. Drywall screws are for drywall, and are used indoors. They look similar, but they ain’t the same! They will rust out in less than a year.

I have done well with 2.5 inch deck screws, over 5 years so far. Your mileage may vary.

#14

For those that don’t know: Deck screw…coated usually ceramic (green or brown) …flat head with ‘nibs’ underneath to aid in countersinking…coarse thread, about 8 TPI… and sometimes come with a modified tip to act like a drill bit.
Edit to add: the heads can also be ‘bugle head’ (like a drywall screw).

#15

For most outdoor construction I use square drive stainless steel deck screws in lengths varying from 1½ to 4". Lots of 3 or 3½" ones. Virtually no nails for permanent construction.

The square drive bits are consumables. I purchase those in bulk. The first time a bit either comes off or slips on the screw head, I replace it. That saves stripped screw heads. The ‘brand name’ bits last longer than the Harbor Freight & discount ones, but you need to always have some spares in your drill kit. That saves extra trips to the hardware store!

Happy (Well Fastened) RRing,

Jerry

#16

Michael, I can’t really add anything to the good advice that you have already received except maybe “follow it”. Believe me, I know all about doing things “my own way” but sometimes procedures are standardized because they produce the best results. For what it’s worth attached are a couple pictures of my latest addition. The basic bench work was installed a year ago last February and sat do to other projects. Just this month I have come back to it and started to get it ready for track. Basic description; 36 inch X 96 inch modules of 2x4 PT wood with cross members on 12 inch centers. A set of 4x4 PT post set in concrete at each corner and 2x4 PT legs in the center (4 foot apart) set on surface blocks. Decking screws, 3 1/2 inch, nothing else. Good luck on your project. Rick

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/rick_marty/_forumfiles/RRupdatefile/view3.jpg)

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/rick_marty/_forumfiles/RRupdatefile/view4.jpg)

#17

Well, I do have to say I am a big fan of them stainless deck screws in other contexts and was only considering lagging for the actual framing. Reading up on the deck forums, there is some sort of assertion that framing with screws is not to code in California. That’s a big surprise to me.

But of course you are right that there is a big difference between drywall screws and deck screws. And of course there is the pneumatic framing nailer that is calling my name… I appreciate the advice and will take it to heart!

Michael

#18
Michael Moradzadeh said:
And of course there is the pneumatic framing nailer that is calling my name.... I appreciate the advice and will take it to heart!

Michael


The nailer would make the work a lot faster. I use one for my carpentry projects. My only concern is nails eventually will come loose. Screws usually dont.

I’m puzzled by the CA law stating that deck screws are not acceptable in building a deck. I would maybe agree if your talking about framing a house or something like that where there is a lot more load bearing concerns and other forces to contend with. Decking doesnt deal with those things. But I live in South Dakota, we dont deal with all those wierd crazy regulations they have in CA.

#19
Jerry Bowers said:
For most outdoor construction I use square drive [b]stainless steel deck screws[/b] in lengths varying from 1½ to 4". Lots of 3 or 3½" ones. Virtually no nails for permanent construction.

The square drive bits are consumables. I purchase those in bulk. The first time a bit either comes off or slips on the screw head, I replace it. That saves stripped screw heads. The ‘brand name’ bits last longer than the Harbor Freight & discount ones, but you need to always have some spares in your drill kit. That saves extra trips to the hardware store!

Happy (Well Fastened) RRing,

Jerry


Jerry,

I usually use a compact impact driver for driving my screws in. I found I wore through the square bits real quick. I switched to the star bits and the bit lasts a lot longer. Have you tried that yet?

#20

The Torx bits rock! I used nothing but square drive untill the Torx came out. I have framed a basement, built indoor railroad benchwork, and built a deck (frame and decking) and have yet to replace the driver bit!

I also had to demolish the previously mentioned train benchwork and those Torx drive screws came out perfectly. So good in fact I was able to re-use them for some extensive garage workbenches. Though the driver bit did finally “die” tearing down the benchwork. :frowning: