Large Scale Central

wiring underground???

General Discussion
#21

Ken:

Not long winded, Just long enough to show how discourteous that post was.

EVERYONE has experienced the battery vs track power debate.

It had NO PLACE on this thread, and this is a forum, so I expressed my dismay at an unneeded, unhelpful post.

Everyone here is a grownup, knows the score, acting like children is unacceptable.

  • The track power people don’t lurk in the battery threads.
  • People running sparkies don’t invade live steam threads.
  • This thread is about WIRING UNDERGROUND and HELPFUL suggestions, not “NO WIRES”

Ken how would YOU feel if you presented your layout, asked a specific question about turnouts, for example, and everyone lit into you because you chose the wrong plants, or didn’t like your house, or told you should be battery/steam/electric only?

Think of the OP who asked the question, not about your personal decision, all of us need to do this (and yes me too!)

Greg

Ken Brunt said:

Richard Mynderup said:
I bit the bullet and went RC/Battery from day one . Haven’t regretted it at all.

And this deserves a long winded rant??? Sheesh…(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#22

Greg Elmassian said:

Everyone here is a grownup, knows the score, acting like children is unacceptable.

I see only one poster here acting like a child. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-yell.gif)

#23

Since the OP was on underground wiring, I’m fine with the topic staying on underground wiring.

Thanks to Greg’s advice years ago, I’ve used #10 sprinkler wire for all my main feeds. I buried the #10-2 cables directly.

But, in many cases, I think I’m going to wish that I’d buried them within larger-diameter pvc conduit. Not for the usual purpose of moisture prevention, but for things like:

  • shovel protection
  • finding the stinking cable
  • running a new cable alongside the old one, without the need of making a new trench

Underground low-voltage wiring can be run without conduit. But conduit, or other physical means of protection, may be advantageous in certain circumstances. In other words, it’s not an electrical thing, or a code thing, but a how-you’re-gonna-deploy-and-maintain-your-wiring thing.

Cliff

#24

Greg Elmassian, Dude!! My comment was in no way ever intended to stir up a debate. I just made a statement of what I use. Sorry to get you riled up about it. You’ve been ton’s helpful to me over the years and I appreciate it so much…so sorry I was out of line. I’ll mind my p’s and q’s next time.

Respectfully,

Richard

#25

Whilst regular DC track power is still the dominant method of power and control it must irk Greg that DCC has simply not caught on like he and other DCC aficionados, let alone the DCC manufacturers, hoped it would.

We should all take a deep breath and make allowances for him in this, his time of anguish. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cry.gif)

#26

I run Malibu low-voltage wiring from my solar panels to my buildings for lights. (12 gauge stranded, if I recall.) Had I run that at the start of construction, I would have run the wire through conduit with junction boxes. Why? Shovels. That’s why. I’ve got three solar panels, each feeding one town each. That’s three individual trunk lines. I know where those wires run. I’ve still managed to cut through them while planting bushes in the garden.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-yell.gif)

Note to self: decision not to get a job digging ditches for the utility company–wise career move.

Later,

K

#27

Ken how would YOU feel if you presented your layout, asked a specific question about turnouts, for example, and everyone lit into you because you chose the wrong plants, or didn’t like your house, or told you should be battery/steam/electric only?

If that happened I’d probably just ignore it, but since that has happened neither here or elsewhere, I still don’t see what all the fuss is about or why it has to be made into an issue with some people.

#28

For those trying to locate the buried cable perhaps something like the following would provide the needed assistance - Underground Cable Wire Locator

I’m indoors and don’t need this, but it might help those that do. I assume there are other brands and some that work better, or worse, but this was the first link I found with a search of “underground electrical wire detection”.

#29

To All My LSC Peeps!!

In order to redeem myself and perhaps start the long road to recovering some of my “reputation” points I have edited my offensive post from the other day. I respect all of you and have always appreciated your help and comments.

I am in this hobby to enjoy it and many of you are a part of that…

Thanks,

Richard

#30

Richard Mynderup said:

To All My LSC Peeps!!

In order to redeem myself and perhaps start the long road to recovering some of my “reputation” points I have edited my offensive post from the other day. I respect all of you and have always appreciated your help and comments.

I am in this hobby to enjoy it and many of you are a part of that…

Thanks,

Richard

Richard,

Don’t take it too badly. About 1/2 my fleet of locos is battery powered/RC and the other 1/2 is analog track power. Sometimes I run both at the same time! This kind of thing will never subside, but some people get their feathers all ruffled. Only one member took offense, so that is definitely a minority!

#31

Richard Mynderup said:

To All My LSC Peeps!!

In order to redeem myself and perhaps start the long road to recovering some of my “reputation” points I have edited my offensive post from the other day. I respect all of you and have always appreciated your help and comments.

I am in this hobby to enjoy it and many of you are a part of that…

Thanks,

Richard

Now, Richard, you don’t want to invalidate your membership card in the Battery Mafia, do you? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

#32

add to the list of forbidden topics. No religion, no politics, AND NO POWERING METHODS. . . for some that is a religion. Only problem is for us newbies its good info. When your first starting out it is a prime consideration. Problem is there is no “right” way to do it. Each has its merits, each has its down fall. While Noel is certainly right in that someone pulling 50 cars behind 5 locos at their house might be better served with track power grab that diesel and head to a club meet where there is no track power. The thing is they really aren’t apples to apples comparisons. Each will cater to a different person based on their needs. For me track power would be pointless because I don’t have a track. Battery ensures I can play anywhere. And for me I will have as much fun making the rounds to different layouts.

So all you set in your ways old timers on all three sides of the coin (don’t forget DCC) get off your high horse. Us new guys don’t need your BS egos we need your advice and your experience. Tell us what you use, why you use it, and its pluses and minus, and how you feel is the best way to implement it. Other people feel free to offer a different opinion (void the I’m right my way is better BS).When someone does offer a differing opinion realize it works for them and let them explain why. Drop the I have been in the hobby for a hundred years so there for I have the only opinion.

I respect what you know and what you have to offer, I also repsect what the other guy knows and has to offer. Then I will take the vast pool of knowledge and experience and make my own mistakes to learn by.

And finally when an OP askes a specific question on how to wire a layout chances are thats what he is really asking about and not if he should have used batteries.

End of rant by another new guy.

Edited to say my rant was not pointed at anyone in particular. Its a general rant about many people on here on many different issues. I am speaking from the new guy perspective who knows nothing and the debates just make you want to go somewhere else and do something different.

#33

It’s not being polite that gets my goat, it’s the Double Standard.

I’m sure when Tony was reviewing Dallee’s new sound card, he Was Not opening his thread for comparison to DCC decoders. … (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

If you missed the Preemptive strike period … lucky you.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-frown.gif)

Happy Rails,

John

#34

I’m staying out of this, and can just feel many people thanking me, over and over…!!!

Although I have had the need, years ago, to put a whole lot of underground wiring (110v AC) in place to provide out door receptacles for lighting, coffee pots and even a bheer refrigerator…and never regretted doing it.

Fr.Fred

#35

I think its time for my two cents worth. :wink: My layout is in a raised bed. I buried two runs of 1-1/2 electrical pvc around the perimeter with t’s every 20 feet or so. One run is for track power, the other for future pneumatics for the switches and possibly 12 volt accessories. Off the t’s are the feeders for the track power. The t’s then are reduced to 3/4 pvc to within about 6" of the track. I know its way overkill but this way I can easily test at any T for issues and also easily replace a bad section if needed. It also protects the wire from shovels which I have been assured will always find a buried wire.

This is just one of many ways it can be done.

Bill

#36

Hmm. I should probably get some PVC conduit - I buried the cord that goes to the mill pump under some mulch. Probably not the ideal solution…(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)

#37

Kevin Strong said:

I run Malibu low-voltage wiring from my solar panels to my buildings for lights. (12 gauge stranded, if I recall.) Had I run that at the start of construction, I would have run the wire through conduit with junction boxes. Why? Shovels. That’s why. I’ve got three solar panels, each feeding one town each. That’s three individual trunk lines. I know where those wires run. I’ve still managed to cut through them while planting bushes in the garden.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-yell.gif)

Note to self: decision not to get a job digging ditches for the utility company–wise career move.

Later,

K

Well, for my railroad power, the wires are buried in the ballast. For my building’s power, the wires are buried under my dirt roads. So I know where they are, and if I need to access them, I don’t need to disturb any of the green leafy things. Conversely, if I plant, or unplant, a green leafy thing, I know that I won’t hit any of my buried wires.

#38

Kevin Strong said:

… I would have run the wire through conduit with junction boxes. Why? Shovels. That’s why.

Like I said! (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

And it’s not just your shovel, it’s your spouse’s – who’ll likely not be as aware of where the you buried the wires. The repercussions might make you really wish you’d used conduit, ask me how I know.

(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)

#39

Cliff Jennings said:

Kevin Strong said:

… I would have run the wire through conduit with junction boxes. Why? Shovels. That’s why.

Like I said! (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

And it’s not just your shovel, it’s your spouse’s – who’ll likely not be as aware of where the you buried the wires. The repercussions might make you really wish you’d used conduit, ask me how I know.

…

Had to laf. Cliff J.
We also now know the hard way…

I used some direct buried UF Cable for some power outlets. We dig it down to about 8 to10 inches in the ground, then add sand around it. Its easy to work with and making bends easy. No pipes to cut or fitting to install. We did this around in our back yard about 30 yrs ago.

When burying the cable we added some redwood 1 x 4’s over the top of it and I fig. this would be enough protection. Should of been safe and not be able to hitting anything with a shovel when planting.

Well I was wrong… Wife and I was doing some planting quite a few yr’s back and while digging, she found the butt end of each board where the shove blade went between them. Then Poof and some smoke and a lot of cussing…" Guess you know where she told me to put that shovel and plants." Good thing she had some boots on and shovel w/ wooden handle.

Now have one shovel with a nice nontraditional natch on it and wife won’t do anymore digging.

Now we shut off panel beakers to that part of the yard. Should of just used pvc and put it down three feet in the ground. Now to many trees and shrubs to re-do it now. lol.

(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-embarassed.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cry.gif)

#40

The advantage of conduit, beside resisting shovels, and allowing you to change or add wires without tearing everything up, is that you can use wires with thinner insulation.

It turns out that the money I saved on thin insulated 10 gauge wire over 10 gauge direct burial wire more than paid for the conduit.

Greg