Large Scale Central

Why doesn't Bachmann build

General Discussion
#1

Everytime I look at my two Bachmann Connies that sit like bookends in our living room (I currently have no place to run 'em), I wonder why Bachmann doesn’t use some parts of that loco to build a nice Mogul or 10-wheeler in 1:20.3? The boiler looks to be about the right length, as does the cab and other stuff. Maybe you could even use some of the drivetrain with different wheels, siderods, etc.

I realize that economic times are tough and that people–in particular large scalers–are not spending like they used to. But maybe it’s because there’s nothing to tweak their interest. After all, the 1:22.5 Annies have been best sellers, proving that people like the design, so why can’t the 1:20.3 locos follow in the smaller scale locos’ tracks?

#2

There are a number of drums (many made from the hides of deceased equines) that I could beat here, but I won’t.

I’d be happy with ANYTHING new in 1:20.3. (Sound: Breath not being held.)

On the flip side, I’ve got a Porter, a Davenport*, a Forney*, two Shays, an articulated*, two Connies, several assorted diesels, and a K-27 in 1:20.3 that I might be able to line up for a photo op, so it’s not like I’m not already well equipped by that particular manufacturer. Still, it was quite nice for several years to have new things on the horizon to, well, anticipate …

Sigh.

Matthew (OV)

  • Yeah, I know. Steps are being taken to correct that.
#3

Original version - you are not alone. I have one each of all the Bachmann geared locos including two two truck and a three-truck Shay, a Connie, a couple of live-steam Shays and an AccuCraft K27 [453].

Long ago and far away you and I posted on the other forum about how neat it would be for Bachmann to make an 18-ton T-boiler Shay like their gorgeous 0n30 model.

Bleeve me, old floon, it will never happen. The glory days of affordable Fn3 are a long ways behind us…

Best

tac, ig & The Carrying Place Boys

#4

Hi tac:

The 4-4-0 at 400.00 actual retail is my personal limit for a plastic loco. The K-27 is also at an excellent price, but that is far too large a loco for me.
When or if the Forney drops to under 400.00 I may buy one but otherwise, no.

So tac the question is why are the new release Bachmann locos so much higher priced than for instance the reruns of the 4-4-0 loco?
The Annie with now a metal drive is still a bargan. Why not the other Bachmann locos? Bachmann previously had the CAD equipment and previously created their own molds. So why the big price inceases?

The first version of the Climax loco, as made in On30, would also be a neat product for Bachmann.

Norman

#5

Hi Guys,
At ECLSTS I talked with Bman and was told there is a new 120.3 steam engine comming out sometime this summer, June/July. All they would say is it is not produced in there HO line,?? and everyone should be verry verry happy with it. Anyone want to try and guess what it is??
I still say if they did a Brooks or Grant or a Coke or Baldwin 2-6-0 they would clean up.

Chuck

#6
Chuck Cole said:
Hi Guys, At ECLSTS I talked with Bman and was told there is a new 120.3 steam engine comming out sometime this summer, June/July. All they would say is it is not produced in there HO line,?? and everyone should be verry verry happy with it. Anyone want to try and guess what it is?? I still say if they did a Brooks or Grant or a Coke or Baldwin 2-6-0 they would clean up.

Chuck


A Class A Climax would be great.

#7

Mornin’, Norman - there was some discussion with Riley last year at the ECLSTS, and his words were simple te understand - China is NOT as cheap a location to make things anymore. I’d be betting that the sales of the Forney haven’t made double figures over here - where it sells for over $1000. This is right up where real live steam starts up, and for me - at least - there is simply no comparison.

And for those who missed out on the Climax the first time around, well, there IS a revised model in 1/20.3, but the sticker price is a heart-stopper for a plastic model.

I have my AccuCraft K27, not the Bachmann version, from almost the day it came out - here in yUK THAT baby hit me well north of $3500 - even without the sound system.

Besp

tac, ig & The Cascade Summit Boys

#8

Well I’d be dreaming if it was a K-28 but I think it smaller than that. I would guess it going to be a DRGW T-19. or a T-12 as they already have a lot of the details and other stuff that they can use off other locomotives that the have been produced. The Annie drivetrain has been proven so they’ll use it with the correct axle spacing and use the drivers off of the mogul.

Rodney

#9

tac that China comment is the crux of the dilema in LS right now, most of the manufacturers put all their eggs into the Chinese basket and signed long term agreements, now China is no longer a cheap place (in many factors) to do business and costs are getting out of reason compared to the product. The ongoing quality control problems seam to be totally intrenched and unfixable given the current modus operendi of the Chinese manufacturing divisions. I’ve been saying it for a long time now, get out of China, get out now before the tofu hits the fan. Prices for goods will only go up as workers demand better wages and working conditions, if not outright rebellion against the communist (in name only) oligarchy leadership in the name of democratic reform. If that happens prices will really skyrocket. As it is the ever rising costs of this hobby are already part of the reasons for its dimminishing influence in model RRing circles. Lets face it, where LS once was growing in leaps and bounds, its really hit the skids in the last couple years, while from what I read the smaller scales (especially On30) have chugged right along with the recovery without too hard of a hit from the economic downturn. At least their track prices didnt double in the last 4 years. I still think a good chunk of LS manufacturing could be moved to Taiwan, or S. Korea, or even back to the US without much of a change in prices. The world is running out of cheap places for manufacturing that are still safe enough to do business, the only truely cheap nations left are also rife with civil discord. As for what would I like to see Bachmann make? Anything friendly to small layouts, given that I am already bought out and not looking to buy anything new I’m not really in any position to cry for a wish list, but I also beleive that one area of potential growth continues to be ignored by the majors in LS, that is Small Layouts. All then hype over the last 5-6 years has been WIDER BIGGER LARGER to the point we ended up with the stupid Bmann K-27 that was so freaking enormous it made the Connie look puny and didnt run on anything but the largest of layouts with the widest of clearances, thats a way to build customer base, Alienate everyone who already had a built 1/22.5~1/20.3ish layout that worded fine before the K came along. Is it ANY surprise they rebound with the reworked smaller and low price Indy and the Lyn this year? (which have totally sold very well BTW) They learned there lesson between the Forney, the K and the 3 truck Shay, bigger (size or $) is not better if it doesnt sell.

(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/xokdrg.jpg)

Here, Bach’man build this, interesting prototype, works on small layouts, and would garner alot of interest from modelers.

#10

Hi Tac & Victor:

I guess the future for Bachmann main sales growth now lies with ON30.
Yes, the first version of the Climax loco would be neat. I think that the introduction of 1:20.3 scale has fragmented the large scale market. Personally, only the Bachmann 1:20.3 4-4-0 and the 1:22.5 Indy are useable for myself and others who started in 1:22.5 or 1:24 scale.
Did Lee Riley expect that their existing largescale customers would abandon 1:22.5 scale given that LGB created the largescale market at 1:22.5 ?
No. Lee Riley was counting on a new additional group of customers who would start off with 1:20.3 scale. This was a big error.
As long as Bachmann can select small prototype locos to build new molds in 1:20.3 then those locos will also be of interest for the 1:22.5 market place.
The 1:20.3 K-27 loco needed to be made as an alternative to high cost brass loco and it is an excellent dollar value. But it is of no use for myself nor is the Connie which is a mystery to myself as to why Lee Riley would ever select such a prototype to model.
I am looking forward to see what the next loco will be. But if it has a street price much over 400.00 , I will pass.

Personally, my favorite locos are the Aristo Craft 1:24 C-16 and the HLW “La Porte” locos. But this simply is not where the present day largescale market is. 1:24 scale no longer sells in significant numbers.

A Disneyland “Ward Kimball” lettered as an original RR as released from the Baldwin factory would interest me.
The Ward Kimball “Chloe” lettered as an original RR as released from the Baldwin factory would also interest me.

Norman

#11
Norman Bourgault said:
Did Lee Riley expect that their existing largescale customers would abandon 1:22.5 scale given that LGB created the largescale market at 1:22.5 ? No. Lee Riley was counting on a new additional group of customers who would start off with 1:20.3 scale. This was a big error.
I think he was counting on both, and indeed both have happened to a large extent. There are a good number of folks who "jumped ship" to 1:20.3 once the larger stuff hit the market, myself included. I sold off or scrapped all my 1:24 stuff. And a fair majority of the narrow gauge modelers who have joined the hobby since [i]have[/i] gone with 1:20.3. At the same time, there are those who are fairly heavily entrenched in 1:22.5/1:24 and haven't made the switch for whatever reason. My dad's a prime example. When the 1:20 stuff hit the market, he was already well-established with the smaller models with much of what he needed. Others have space considerations which all but mandate the smaller equipment.
Quote:
As long as Bachmann can select small prototype locos to build new molds in 1:20.3 then those locos will also be of interest for the 1:22.5 market place.
Agreed. I'm not a fan of the "bigger is better" movement that's seemed to permeate the hobby in the past decade. The big stuff is certainly cool to look at, but it can also be visually overpowering on many railroads. I own a K-27 and an EBT mikado, but they just don't "look right" pulling a train around my railroad.
Quote:
...nor is the Connie which is a mystery to myself as to why Lee Riley would ever select such a prototype to model.
I tend to think the prototype for the 2-8-0 was a good choice. Why? Because it's very generic and easily customized. Bachmann could easily have done a D&RGW C-21 or C-25, but they would have risked alienating a lot of the market that didn't want a specifically D&RGW locomotive (myself included). On the other hand, by going with a generic prototype, it's much more of a blank canvas. Modelers who like the loco for what it is will be perfectly happy with it. Others who want to customize it can add and subtract details to their heart's content. I've seen lots of 2-8-0 kitbashes, and many of them are very unique. I've done three myself,and have ideas in my head for at least two or three others. None remotely resemble the others except for the chassis. It's a marvelously malleable locomotive.

Compare to the K-27, which is based on a specific, arguably iconic prototype. How many 2-8-2 kitbashes have you seen that in any way hide the heritage of that loco? I have yet to see any. Heck, even mine–as much as a non-Colorado person as I am–still looks like a K-27 in different paint.

Quote:
I am looking forward to see what the next loco will be. But if it has a street price much over 400.00 , I will pass.
Pricing will be interesting. I, too, would like to see them come in around the $400 mark, maybe $500 at the most. I think once you start pushing higher than that, you start losing customers. They have to really [i]want[/i] the loco to pay upwards of $700+ for it. Granted, $400 isn't small potatoes either, but it's easier to spend that for a "good deal" at a train show.

Later,

K

#12
Norman Bourgault said:
Did Lee Riley expect that their existing largescale customers would abandon 1:22.5 scale given that LGB created the largescale market at 1:22.5 ? No. Lee Riley was counting on a new additional group of customers who would start off with 1:20.3 scale. This was a big error.

Norman


I kinda did. I was not a fan of Bachmann’s 1:22.5 stuff at all. I had a couple of coaches but that was it. When they released the Spectrum 1:20.3 line I pretty much “dumped” most of my “American” LGB stuff to fund Bachmann 1:20.3. So essentially I am a “new” Bachmann customer.

Now I have a ton of their stuff and would welcome more.

I would really like to see less logging loco’s, they/I have plenty. I would like to see a diesel. The first diesel flopped in my opinion due to the lack of other 1:20.3 rolling stock available at the time. The going price for these once unwanted diesels suggests to me a re-release or new diesel may be a popular item.

#13

I’d like a new diesel, too, but a road locomotive, not another switcher. How about something like GE’s C25, or DL535E’s like on the WP&Y?

#14

Bob - many of us who are fans of the WP&YRR have asked makers over the years for either a 535 or a Shovel-nose - after all, the White Pass is by far THE most popualr tourist line on the planet, bar none - with well over a million paying visitors every year. Sadly, looking at my 1/20.3 scale drawings from Mike over there in Skagaway, the DL535 is nothing short of HUMUNGOUS, and the GE shovel-nose about the same size. If you look at the new AccuCraft EBT mike- well, that’s 99% the same size as #73, a loco I would deliver my grand-daughter’s inheritance for if it ever appeared. Either of these two locos would dwarf most any track you put it on, although something like the Winnegance & Montreal [or is it the other way ropund?] might manage it/them.

tac & ig & The Lake Bennett Boys

#15

A C25…

:smiley:

#16

Talking about GE’s C25

(http://files.gereports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Nigeria_Loco_in_Brazil-2.jpg)

#17

I was very pleasantly surprized at the detail and quality of the Bachmann 1:20.3 Davenport gas-mechanical locomotive. Mine cost $75.00 at the Nicolas Smith booth at ECLSTS. It can probably pull more cars than the prototype could, and the prototype was so small, that it does not look out of place with 1:22.5 and 1:24 models.

(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/davemeashey/Davenport01.JPG)

Iknow, I know - I should never show it with a 1:29 car, but having a Hooker tied to a Davenport just sounds so kinky. :lol: Have fun, David Meashey

#18

One feature of LGB is their locomotive’s ability to run on any of the track radius LGB sells. In short, 1600 (8’ diameter) curves are what most of us have on our layouts. In the 90s that’s what was available and what was planned for in our layouts. My guess is a clear majority of LSC readers built their layouts at least ten years ago – 14 years ago for our family.

CONCLUSION:
Engineer and manufacture locos, as did or does LGB, to work on at least 1500 - 1600 curves. GULP! I say “work.” Just as the LGB mallet “works” on 1600 and below along with the Hudson, yes, all look best on the largest radius. Yet, forgiveness gives option to ownership. True, we have unprotypical 1500 and less curves tucked away in the back of our layout. They are not the “focal point” of the layout and stimulate viewer forgiveness as the mallet and other larger locos twist their way through and back out onto the straightaway.
So if the Aristo/USA/Bachmann boxes proclaimed both the scale and also “all track” use, we might see an increase in sales among those “who already have everything” —that’s everything that can run on their layout.
Wendell

#19

Wendell don’t forget, everything EPL made would work not just on R3 (8 foot ) but also on R1! Even the Mikado will snake through an R1 even though it looks like a scene from the Linda Blair movie doing it. :wink:

#20

Talking to Rolf from LGB a few years ago at the factory in Nuremburg, he told us that the idea behind LGB and its tight radius curves was to enable Germans, who are mainly apartment dwellers with little or no access to the fine big 40-acre backyards you American boys take for granted, to build a little railroad empire in the most confined of spaces.

Sure, my LGB/Aster WP mike would look like a nightmare going around R1 track, but you have respect a design ethos that enables such a beast to actually do it in the fust place.

tac, ig & The Morrison Bridge Boys