Large Scale Central

Where is LGB now?

I’m addicted to LGB corporate history.

LGB was once Large Scale - in fact Large Scale was redundant. LGB was large scale.

Of interest is the March 71-page Walthers Flyer. It is obviously for serious modelers. An LGB Crayola Train set and two starter-in-a-box sets are the serious LGB modeler offerings for March. No PIKO, no USA, no POLK, or any other “serious” large scale players. Other than one cliché Bachmann set, and some Lionel track, LGB had no competition and made children the focus.

Question: Where is LGB now?

Wendell

Long Live LGB!

Wendell Hanks said:

… An LGB Crayola Train set and two starter-in-a-box sets are the serious LGB modeler offerings for March. No PIKO, no USA, no POLK, or any other “serious” large scale players. Other than one cliché Bachmann set, and some Lionel track, LGB had no competition and made children the focus.

Question: Where is LGB now?

Wendell

Last I heard and read they are trying their very best to deliver all the goodies they planned/are planning for the European market. A special emphasis is placed on RhB items. With the currency adjustment in the € to CHF ratio the Swiss market has become even more lucrative. There’s something to that old marketing slogan “if you can sell to those who are ready to buy, there will be two parties who are happy.”

(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)

As always strictly my opinion.

PS That doesn’t mean the Europeans buying stuff sight unseen. As a matter of fact there are quite a few threads that I follow on a Swiss forum that pick apart the new deliveries and list up the discrepancies along with the remedial actions taken. From goof-ups that happen at the factory to visual improvements etc. The end result of the critiques and “look at this cr…” is … many, many more are now reluctant to pre-order from a number of mfgs. It’s that "fool me once etc. " routine that has kicked in.

Hans,

Thanks for your summary. The customer reluctance to purchase – or order if a retailer – based on LGB product/manufacturing foibles, makes it worse with emphasis on European liveries. Ron Gibson’s role with LGB in the U…S. will likely focus on whether LGB will once again emphasize a U.S. market for non-European trains.

Wendell

I highly doubt we will ever see LGB regain the foothold in the USA they had. With odd scaling or refusal to state scale, those days have passed. I am interested to see where the Dash 9 and other Aristo diesels pop up again, with Polks next gen or Bman, since Kader was doing the molding. I shed a tear when the original LGB went down. Pretty much everything I have is LGB, the old German built stuff though. Mikie

“Modeler” is a strange word that brings out several questions, in my mind.

What is an “LGB Modeler” ?

Is that someone, that only purchases LGB products; takes them out of the box and admires them, then adds them to their ever growing collection, in hopes that they grow in financial value ?

Or are they people that purchase LGB products, that contribute to their enjoyment of the hobby of “Large Scale Model Railroading”…?

There are several problems that have always existed in the LGB product line, that should be addressed in order to appeal to the potential WORLD markets.

First; Europe has a great market for European type models, and a rather small market for North American style equipment. The reverse is true for the North American market.

Second; both markets have three distinct interest groups; Model Railroaders, Collectors, and Toy Train people.

All are important to being a successful player in the “Train Model Manufacturing Business”.

From our view, here in North America, we saw the original LGB company, send out a test product of European based equipment, and it saw a good appeal, as a toy train. They then saw the demand for North American styled products. They also saw the “Collector market” suddenly take off.

What happened then, to most observers eyes, was a dwelling on satisfying the collector market, with good quality, and high prices, but failing to realize, that there was an increasing demand in the model railroad market for moderate pricing, and more North American style product. Then competition entered the picture, with B’mann, USTrains, and Aristo. All these offered lower prices, and much more variety to slow, or no response from LGB, other than repaints, and re lettering of existing product. And, of course, only European style starter sets, in a North American market…too slowly, they did add some product, but too late to survive.

Now…today, with new owners, and new financing; LGB is starting up again with quality products, but what products ?

Teddy bears on European style flat cars…I guess research tells them that someone will purchase them, and they do have the old moulds…but there is, with the absence of Aristo, a good market for product from other LGB existing moulds, that would surely be in demand in North America, more so than a European 4 wheeled flar car with teddy bears…but then I’m not in market research…

As far as new product for the North American Market…what do WE, the retail purchasers want, and at what price are we willing to pay ?

I for one have made several modest suggestions to Ron Gibson. All involved modest investments, or no investments in new moulds. Adding to existing equipment lines, that “Modelers” might readily want to acquire.

Then there are the obvious products that some would suggest…that seemed to be in demand when available in the past.

How about everyone that has reasonable ideas, jump on the band wagon, and Email LGB with your suggestions, then be prepared to plunk your dollars down when the products appear…

Actions speak louder than words, guys…move your butts…!!!

Marklin LGB have confirmed that they will be attending G Rail exhibition at Stafford UK on the 22nd March.

It is believed that they will be demonstrating their new digital control products and the 2015 new range models

Could be they are getting their act together at last.

USA next?

Since I have a collection of equipment that far exceeds my needs, I am becoming a spectator to this whole discussion. LGB is supposed to be releasing the Olomana, and I do want one. Beyond that, the only thing I need from LGB is some parts.

LGB did have a good quality product, and I run my LGB stuff a lot. But, as had been stated, they could have made a lot more North American prototypes. But, I cannot justify spending over $100 for a boxcar, when I can find similar cars from USA and Aristo for half that price. LGB must have sold several thousand Moguls, the seem to be everywhere. Maybe they should have made some other reasonably priced locomotives. The Mikado was pretty locomotive, but it was quite expensive. The Porters are cute, and I must have at least half a dozen of them, but they don’t appeal to everyone. LGB USA had a good idea in making the Amtrak stuff, but as I understand it, that wasn’t strictly LGB proper that made that equipment.

This is going to be interesting to watch, but as I said, my days of large equipment purchases are over.

Dave, when the LGB mogul first appeared, I do not think “affordable” was the word. I have quite a collection of early garden railways magazines, along with an issues of Wholly G-Rail and The Train Yard. The comments and cartoons poking fun at the price LGB wanted for them begs to differ from anything to do with affordable. One poked fun by the customer saying he didnt want his wife to kill him, so could he put $300 cash, a check for $300 and the last $300 on his VISA? Another cartoon customer wondered if the shop had a 5 year layaway plan for one of the C&S Bear trap moguls. Today other than some of the very late model versions or the fully equipted C&S with plow and bear trap, are affordable if you shop around. New LGB is quite unaffordable to me, but I still love to look. I still hope to find a factory box with foam insert for my 2018D mogul someday. Like the smells that bring back memories when I fire up my vintage Lionel trains at Christmas, opening a box from LGB has certain smells, from the plastic they used to the packaging materials. All unique to German built LGB IMHO. Those bring back more fond memories, of my first set direct from Germany via my aunt and uncle that got me started in large scale to all the trains that followed. I wish nothing but the best for Marklin/LGB since I own both Marklin in HO scale and LGB. The life and times of large scale has become like the soap operas my wife likes to watch, but more interesting to me. Today its a buyers market for pre bankruptcy LGB. I see prices all over the board, from what is he smoking to awsome deals. Happy hunting! Mike

I also look forward to LGB becoming a player in the market again. While I was primarily an Aristo fan, I also have LGB. My first train was an LGB starter in 1986. I still have that engine, and while it is not even close to scale, combined with a modified tender and custom built canteen, Freedom Central No.2 is still a favorite engine on my excursions.

I can remember way back, in the mid 90’s, when I really started getting into ““Large Scale””… One hobby shop, I went into, the saleman was trying to point out the sturdinees of LGB’s construction… He got an LGB boxcar off the shelf, and placed it on it’s side, on the floor, then looked at me, and said ““Step on it””…

My first reaction was, ““What are you, nuts??””… Who in their right mind, would place a model railroad car on the ground/floor, and tell someone to step on it… Of course, he was trying to point out the sturdiness of it’s construction, but in reality to me, that turned me sour on LGB’s stuff…

The boxcar was in fact, sturdy, with the wall being about a scale foot thick, in my opinion… Wanting a model railroad car, to me it was way out of wack, not to mention the price…

Some of their loco’s were great runners, but some never ran right because of the requirement of running on 4 ft diameter curves…

They did make a few good american style freightcars, like the 50 ft flats, their newer tank cars, and their Covered Hoppers… Their 2-bay hoppers were ok, but pricey…

What was termed ““LGB America””, designed and made a good Amtrak set of the Genisis and diner/coach passenger cars… However, that wasn’t actually a ““TRUE LGB”” product, cause it was made in China…

When I first entered this hobby, and joined a club… It seemed to me, all I heard was, ““Buy LGB stuff””, as it will be more in demand later on and you can make a bunch of money on it…

Seemed to me at the time, all they wanted to do was to run everything around in a circle… Nobody ever mentioned using the scale to operate with…

I whole-heartedly agree, we need more manufacturers of large scale, but in order for that to happen, there also has to be a demand… The demand will only come from incorporating new people into the hobby…

One comment from a recent vendor was ““I sure didn’t sell many Engines this year””… It got me to thinking, ““How many engines does one person really need??””

(Stepping off my soapbox)

Just my outlook of it and my 2 cents worth…

When I first got started in the late '90’s, my first purchases were LGB products. A couple of moguls, rolling stock, Aristo and a couple of USA’s. I found in my case, that the Aristo’s didn’t last long and were passed on. I continued to acquire LGB locos, F7’s a Mikado and a little 2-4-0 steamer, and more USA stock (F-3’s, GP’s, and recently a Hudson). Today, the LGB’s are going strong, but I worry about parts acquisition when the time comes. The USA’s also continue to perform strongly. Much of my rolling stock is Aristo which has held up well even in the hands of grandkids. I wish the best to LGB and hope they will eventually produce the Mikado again. I would love one more. In my case, I believe the LGB’s are the best running of my inventory, save for the Hudson, which does not yet have much time on it however. I guess time will tell.

Somewhat

Here’s an idea I have seen on another forum; get a regular update on how the different manufacturers are doing each month e.g. a list of what is being delivered and a follow-up list of how the items are received by the market place.

Yes, I realize that this could be boring, given the scarcity of new items from many mfgs, however that could remind people who actually delivers new items that they presented as NEW for 20xx .

HJ -

Thanks, some questions:

On the other forum, how long has the update been a feature? Are the contributions from the mfg., distributors, or from reader sources such as yourself? My guess is the information is strongly desired by site readers.

I see no merit in rejecting ANY product communication from manufacturers. If proposed by Bob, and accepted, that alone makes a statement about their need for product promotion.

Meanwhile…

Previous enthusiastic reinforcement shown on this site for those manufacturers and vendors who use new product announcements as concept marketing, would instead shift to those who REALLY have a product at the ready. This site has been replete with reader analysis and commentary on the practice of promoting “fake” or “phantom” products that never reach us as consumers – let alone a vendor.

In short, your idea is worth a try.

Wendell

I spent the day at a TCA show in Denver, running at the DGRS display. Aristo-Craft pretty much ruled the day, with a pair of SD45s, a 2-8-8-2, and a small flock of eggliners. LGB was represented by the club’s venerable 2017 (Americanized Stainz) and one member’s LGB Amtrak consist (3 Genesis locos and a string of Amtube cars.) Bachmann was represented by my C-19, Thomas, and an Industrial mogul which all ran pretty much all day. Also represented, USA and Hartland with one loco each. Later in the day, a member brought his LGB Sumpter Valley mallet and a string of cars. LGB is no longer the 800-pound gorilla it once was, and the hobby doesn’t seem to be suffering much at all for it. (That’s not to say we’re not in something of a slump, but its reasons lie outside the loss of LGB.) The US market has shifted towards modeling with an emphasis on scale,whatever that scale may be. There wasn’t near as much “anything goes” as I used to see in years past. Folks had their 1:29 trains, their 1:22 trains, their 1:20 trains, etc.

LGB’s future? It’s in LGB’s hands. The “good old days” when reputation alone carried them through are long behind them, I think. They have potential, especially with Aristo’s current hiatus, to come in and regain significant market share. But they’ve got to come in with a much more scale-oriented attitude than they’ve demonstrated in the past. It’s not completely foreign to them; there was a concerted effort within LGB of America to promote accurate 1:29 models before the bottom dropped out. I think if they tap into that mindset, they’ll do well for themselves.

Later,

K

Wendell Hanks said:

HJ -

Thanks, some questions:

On the other forum, how long has the update been a feature? Are the contributions from the mfg., distributors, or from reader sources such as yourself? My guess is the information is strongly desired by site readers.

I don’t remember how that started, but it was several years ago. While the mfgs put out regular lists, the proof of the pudding is the arrival of merchandise on the dealers’ shelves, reported by the consumers.

I see no merit in rejecting ANY product communication from manufacturers. If proposed by Bob, and accepted, that alone makes a statement about their need for product promotion.

Meanwhile…

Previous enthusiastic reinforcement shown on this site for those manufacturers and vendors who use new product announcements as concept marketing, would instead shift to those who REALLY have a product at the ready.

Precisely, the feature could include every kind of different LS product. My choice of moniker would be “Promised AND delivered”.

One sticky thread in the “Vendors and Manufacturers” section would be all to have it function. That along with reading prior to posting, to avoid duplications, should work quite well.

As always strictly my opinion. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Anyone, without bias, can start a thread in the appropriate forum; that could keep track of what is promised, and what is actually produced. As soon as the thread is started, anyone can update it, as long as their information is factual, and not just speculation, or wishes.

…with the hope that no-one jumps in with unnecessary chatter about likes and dislikes.

…give us the facts, only the facts, please…!!!

Fr.Fred

I have a copy of the yet-to-be-released LGB brochure.

I am not sure how to post a .pdf file here. Someone does.

PE 2015 four axle streetcar is nice looking.

5 versions of the Mikado.

The Olomana.

Lake George and Boulder 4-axle caboose.

WP&Y passenger cars.

5 roadnames of the big cabeese to go with the Mikados.

The Wolfgang Richter Tribute Stainz (sold out already)

Christmas train, Christmas 2-axle trolley.

Lake George and Boulder passenger starter set.

LGB freight starter set.

Forneys.

Buehler Motor Museum Gondola.

Not bad.

TOC

The Olomana was supposed to be out last year, but who is counting?

I am, since I have pre-ordered one.

OK, here is the PDF for that brochure.

http://www.rhb-grischun.ca/pdf/LGB_US_Brochure2015.pdf

It is almost 9 Meg, soooo (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)OK it works, just didn’t want to in Preview.