OK as someone who is just thinking about starting, ok, started, I did just buy a locomotive and a box car at the train show over the weekend I was kind of surprised there were only 2 LS dealers there, well 1 was all LS and that is who I bought from. with all the doom and gloom forecasts I hope I can get enough stuff to build mine before it all goes away. Track will be the big expense and at the show it was 6.25 a foot for flex track. So it will be painful to get enough to make a start on things . I hope it will continue, or that I can pick up what I need as others go out of the hobby, but I hope that doesn’t happen. Doing what I can to keep it going
Nico Corbo said:
Not everyone can build an empire, stay within your means and build as you go, most everyone I know started out with one small loop in the garden. Expand as time and finances allow.
We are here only for a short time enjoy what you have,
Nico Corbo
Perfect advice Nico.
Pete Lassen said:
OK as someone who is just thinking about starting, ok, started, I did just buy a locomotive and a box car at the train show over the weekend I was kind of surprised there were only 2 LS dealers there, well 1 was all LS and that is who I bought from. with all the doom and gloom forecasts I hope I can get enough stuff to build mine before it all goes away. Track will be the big expense and at the show it was 6.25 a foot for flex track. So it will be painful to get enough to make a start on things . I hope it will continue, or that I can pick up what I need as others go out of the hobby, but I hope that doesn’t happen. Doing what I can to keep it going
Pete you and I are in the same boat. I have been at it for a year and have no track. I am buying and building what I can but track prices are very prohibitive in my opinion. Everything else can be pieced together if your willing to buy used and scratch build and bash. Its the track. I am looking at well over $1000 bucks for a modest outdoor layout. For this guy that’s almost enough to make it a no go. Its one of the reasons I have switched interest to indoors. I can get more bang for my buck. Hand laying track on my own ties has reduced my track cost to a very reasonable under $200. Lagas aluminum rails are $3.50 for 6’ which makes the cost just over $1.00 a foot. You might want to consider that route if your willing to hand spike.
if I had any room inside I would probably go HO, Devon. I figure I will start with a minimal layout and add when I can. I keep adjusting my plans trying to see if I can get something reasonable started, but like you it is going to be expensive, so I will buy what I can either on Ebay or join the local club and see if I can find deals that way. I like your approach to build your structures now. Hand laying and Aluminum track are out for me since there are grandkids.
Back to the original post to avoid too much drift I will do all I can in my means to support the hobby, and while I read a post elsewhere about GR magazine shrinking , I will still subscribe so as to support it along with using their advertisers when possible to help them along. Every little thing we can do to support the hobby can go a long way, especially not talking so much doom and gloom. it can discourage someone from starting, it got me worried when I first read it, then I thought it through.
Ok folks, I have been a model railroader since I was in elementary school. HO, then N, then HO then large scale and now large scale and HO. All that time I have read articles, and heard talk, and now that the internet is around, I am reading on the internet about the end of model railroading as a hobby, and specifically here, large scale as a hobby. So, for over 30 years I have been reading and hearing this stuff. HO is booming, new stuff coming out all the time. Large scale has been hit hard by the downturn in the economy, but go away? No, I don’t see it ever going away. I would hope, and guess, that when things improve, we will see more new product again, not just repaints.
Bachmann came out with the 1:29th streetcar not too many years ago, so, maybe, just maybe, they will slowly start bringing out more 1:29th stuff. Piko was known in HO for years, and now they are bringing out large scale stuff. And Piko came into large scale after the economy got tough. LGB is re-releasing their Mikado, and some other products. Now why would they do that if they didn’t see a future in it? Bachmann came out with solid brass track, after the economy got tough. I see the manufactures that are still around trying to keep large scale going, but they have to recoup their investment. So, new products will probably be slow in coming for a while, but they are coming.
So I see the doom and gloom crowd as just that. They have always been there in any hobby, they will always be there, and they will always be talking about the decline of whatever hobby they are in, or not in. I don’t listen to them. I see the kids faces light up at train shows and other displays we do. I talk with folks who are “interested” in getting into the hobby. I see all of the brightly coloured boxes being carried out of the ECLSTS every year. And I believe that when the economy picks back up, we will see more new product being introduced, and more folks on sites like this asking questions that start out with “I am new to the hobby and I have a question…”.
Pete I didn’t mean go indoors I meant hand lay your track. Guys here have doen some pretty nice stuff using wood or UV resistant plastic for inexpensive ties. I was just refereing to getting away from preassembled track to make the money stretch farther. I know I don’t want to go that route outdoors but thought I would throw it out there
When I go to train shows, the large scale vendors are becoming more and more scarce. I haven’t purchased anything new since the old LGB went belly up. Prices are getting to be too much for my retirement income. I’m planning to get back into “O” scale. I’ve already made two purchases on Ebay. The amount of “O” scale available there is quite astonishing, as are the number of “O” scale vendors at train shows.
I know Lionel prices for top of the line locos are through the stratosphere, but that’s not what I am buying. I thought “G” scale locos were high. Lionel has them topped in most cases. No, I am looking to get back to where I left the “O” scale market twenty five years ago.
One reason is that I can operate all year long. The other is that I love the operating accessories. And best of all, I have been given the nod to use the attic !!!
So I may be one of those to blame for the shrinking LS market.
This hobby like many is driven by disposable income. Right now, there doesnt seem to be a lot of that around. I think others have made valid points about available space, income etc. When I started in 1994, there were lots of choices from manufacturers and dealers. I for one was a fan of Aristo stuff, reasonably priced and looked pretty good. After my 15 year absence from the hobby, I come to find that Aristo is no more, along with my local supplier, San-Val. I turned to the secondary (slightly used, pre-owned, etc.) market and I have been able to find some pretty good deals. I found some used track, Piko Locomotive (Almost new), Aristo FA1, various rolling stock in great condition for ridiculous prices.
Here are 2 problems I see…
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If there arent enough people buying new products from the suppliers and manufacturers, they will eventually cease to exist…or get into another scale.
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kids today are just not into trains like many of us were. We didnt have computers, ipads, x box, etc…we had to use our imaginations. I just dont see kids excited about model railroading or trains in general. I was a train guy from birth, I started young (see profile pic), got into HO, then a Jr High math teacher introduced me to N Scale and Rail Fanning. We used to go on excursions, chasing trains, visiting railroad museums and even went to his house to work and play on his N Scale empire (Los Angeles to San Francisco via Tehachapi Loop) I dont see many teachers offering to have students to their houses these days…different times. In high school I had another teacher that kept the model railroad spark alive…girls, guitars and cars derailed my model railroading during those years.
I hope Large Scale sticks around for some time to come, but I think it is going to take work on all our parts to keep this hobby alive and thriving.
Just my 2 cents
less than a day and nearly 30 postings. this seems to be an interesting theme.
aparently most of you have similar ideas about the economic outlook for largescale, as i have.
so it is good, that we have this forum, with much weight on modelling and scratchbuilding.
i have no doubt, that even with dwindling professional offers most of us will stay in the hobby. - more as do-it-your-selfers than before, but still largescaling. (just have a look at the interesting builds for this years challenge)
btw. Devon, there is another work-around against high track prices. during the first half of my over 45 years in the hobby, most of my track consisted of cheap curtain rails. (not the turnouts) this layout, i am trying to finish within the next decades, will be the first one with hundred percent “real” track.
Korm Kormsen said:
btw. Devon, there is another work-around against high track prices. during the first half of my over 45 years in the hobby, most of my track consisted of cheap curtain rails. (not the turnouts) this layout, i am trying to finish within the next decades, will be the first one with hundred percent “real” track.
I actually kinda wondered about using aluminum angle. But I think at the end of the day I will bite the bullet and get the track I want and will love. And that brings us back to topic. I look at it like many of my other very expensive hobbies there is always going to be an expensive one time outlay of cash to get you rolling. Fishing means a boat or rods and reals and initial tackle, Hunting you got to buy the gun, wood working you gotta buy the tools. Well if you want to play in Large Scale you have to expect to have an initial outlay of cash for the track. you can build on the hobby from there. So Yes track is expensive but it you send the once time outlay of cash and get the best foundation (track) you can then you can build from there. For some that may be a small loop others might be able to build an empire. The point is the price of track should be expected and considered the start up cost.
I know I am on one end of a spectrum in that I love the building as much or more than anything. So for me the hobby will always be alive even if I am the only one left.
Korm Kormsen said:
aparently most of you have similar ideas about the economic outlook for largescale, as i have.
so it is good, that we have this forum, with much weight on modelling and scratchbuilding.
Going back to the old days…at least it will teach people new skills…and amen to that!
I’ve got 2 trains and 143’ of track. I find I enjoy building as much as running.
My railroad is heading into it’s 3rd configuration, I’m leaving the dirt below… and the eastern reverse loop gets flopped out to the front, bringing the mine with it… I hope elevated, the critters will be less destructive. A guy can hope can’t he?
My outlook is I have enough, it’s up to me to get the most out of it.
Enough? What about those plans for a 70 trestle with hand laid track? Arrrggghhh!
John
Reason for demise? Consider the gardening aspect is secondary. No garden magazine ads, no pictorials showing application in home gardens in the myriad of garden magazines. Missing are the photo stories showing how home owners have animated their gardens and yards with outdoor trains. Missing are the manufacturers showing application and home owner satisfaction.
Question: Where are the photos of garden railroads in the garden departments of Loews and Home Depot? I don’t see trains in gardens at any of the remaining model train stores.
So the industry continues to talk to us not those who don’t know.
Your comment?
Wendell
Reason for demise? Consider the gardening aspect is secondary. No garden magazine ads, no pictorials showing application in home gardens in the myriad of garden magazines. Missing are the photo stories showing how home owners have animated their gardens and yards with outdoor trains. Missing are the manufacturers showing application and home owner satisfaction.
Question: Where are the photos of garden railroads in the garden departments of Loews and Home Depot? I don’t see trains in gardens at any of the remaining model train stores.
So the industry continues to talk to us not those who don’t know.
Your comment?
Wendell
Wendell, Home Depot, Lowes, Costco, Sams Club and all the type ONLY deal in the high traffic items, they have the stuff that moves quickly and , if they put it on their shelves you are going to have to PAY THEM for the shelf space to even get it in the store. maybe IF a store garden department manager was in the hobby he could talk a manager into a small circle of a layout but any space in any of those stores that are not generating revenue is wasted space to the powers that be.
Wendell Hanks said:
Reason for demise? Consider the gardening aspect is secondary. No garden magazine ads, no pictorials showing application in home gardens in the myriad of garden magazines. Missing are the photo stories showing how home owners have animated their gardens and yards with outdoor trains. Missing are the manufacturers showing application and home owner satisfaction.
Question: Where are the photos of garden railroads in the garden departments of Loews and Home Depot? I don’t see trains in gardens at any of the remaining model train stores.
So the industry continues to talk to us not those who don’t know.
Your comment?
Wendell
Its always been thus, and always will be, amen.
Devon I am expecting to spend a lot to build my empire/what I want out of this. I knew that going into it and like you said with any hobby there is the outlay of tools of that hobby to get started. I went from starting to build a 32 Ford, to woodworking to GR as hobbies, which will require woodworking tools if I build structures. After seeing what is happening with the MIK Challenge, building looks fun/ stressful. Looking at the cash outlays for my other interests, I can kind of combine woodworking and the GR into one and be WAY ahead of anywhere near a hot rod/ muscle car hobby. when I retire in a few years and I have all the needs, track, locomotives and rolling stock then I can either coast along or as things come available add to my hobby. So even if things go to hell in a hand basket and most people leave I will have my things to play with and to will to my grandkids after I am done with them. Maybe by then if nothing else they will be collectors items and can be seen on Pawn Stars or some thing like that. I think I will stick around and see where this is heading, I think I have found some friends on here that we may be able to keep this hobby going, mainly to keep us out of more trouble
GR still has alot of the Gardening aspect included in their layout descriptions, but the trend towards LS being more like HO just bigger and moved outside doesn’t help. Also live steam, which is still the most healthy aspect of LS, use layouts that are often just elevated platforms.
Its would be nice to see more large scale live steam being treated more like the British live steam layouts of the 40’s and 50’s, which were highly detailed and nicely supplanted into their garden environs.
Terry Burr said:
Nico Corbo said:
Not everyone can build an empire, stay within your means and build as you go, most everyone I know started out with one small loop in the garden. Expand as time and finances allow.
We are here only for a short time enjoy what you have,
Nico Corbo
X 2 and I have gone the other route and am doing Live Steam as there is new coming all the time but you sure can’t buy much but you don’t need a lot of engines either. Mine are RC so I can run mine through the garden. Just another way to also keep interest. Later RJD
Perfect advice Nico.
Track is often available in the secondary market, if you pay attention to the Bay, and to estate sales.
I’d take a hard look at Aristo’s aluminum offering, before purchasing it, as the rails seem to twist, longitudinally, after a while. Other brands of aluminum and other metals seem to last fine.