Large Scale Central

When did they start...?

General Discussion
#1

let’s see, if somebody can help me out with historic knowledge.

when did they start to build clerestory roofs?
and, when did they start to build the round roof-ends?

well, i am somewhat sure, that it was after the invention of steam trains and stagecoach-style cars.
but it seems to me, that the earliest passengercars just had simple rounded roofs in the european style.
additional question: where there any passenger cars with gabled roofs, like the freightcars?

thanks in advance for any helpfull answers.

#2

Yes on the gabled roof though they were a specialty of sorts. Pullman built them.

Also were the Harriman type roof:
The Harriman arch roof and heavyweight passenger cars were signature to the 1920s-1940s passenger trains. As passenger rail developed in North America so did the needs of the travelling public. The arch roof passenger cars allowed the railroads to fulfill more seats per car than the wooden passenger cars they replaced.

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#3

thank you, Hollywood.

so, if we do not believe, that troop transports were counted as stockcars, my third question is already answered.

#4

The person you need is John H. White or his book. I have a copy of his book at home in MD.
[He was employed by the National Museum of American History from 1958 to 1990. He has published thirteen books and more than 150 articles. His book The American Railroad Passenger Car was nominated for the National book Award in 1978. Since 1996 he has been a professor at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, where he teaches history of travel and technology.]

Lincoln’s Funeral Train, in 1865, had a large Presidential coach with a clerestory roof, but unlike later cars, the ends were square.

By 1870, if you check the notes for David Fletchers Masterclass on Carter Bros coaches, the ends had duckbill curves, instead of upright. Then they started making the end a smooth curve - check out this 1871 Jackson & Sharp coach:

And by 1882 they had nice regular ends that we are used to.

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#5

You will note on the caption that the troop cars were built from standard boxcars, so I don’t think they count as a coach. :thinking:

#6

I found several references to ‘crackerbox’ (tiny) cars that were based on freight vehicles, so it is possible some had a gabled roof.
However, this article about monitor (clerestory) roofs claims that theroof was rounded before the clerestory.
https://www.trovestar.com/blog/article/85

#7

So which is it Pete? Note that the troop sleepers were based on AAR standard design

#8

Pete, you made my day!

as i prefer to work with wood, a clerestory roof, like on the lincoln-car, will be much easier to realise.
and the last pic would even give me the excuse to leave some cars with just a round roof.
as i’m modeling the middle of the century generic southern railways in 1:32, i’ll just have to make my 1:32 toy cars just a little wider and somewhat longer.

my lemons:

yellow2

these are about 11" long, and and about 3.2" wide.

from civil war pics i got the impression, that southern railways had cars, that were notably wider than high.

my idea is, to make a car out of 1 ½ lemons. widen it about 4/5", and clad them in veneer.
that should be exact enough for goverment work.

#9

I think many Southern RR in that era were 5’ gauge, which might explain the width?

Which is what? A converted or redesign boxcar does not qualify as a coach in my book. I have not found any pics of coaches with a gabled roof.

#10

I just noted that both car types were based on freight vehicles designs, neither were converted from existing stock but you seem to have found a qualifying difference, and I’m just trying to understand the supposed differences to improve my knowledge

#11

found a nice pic:

lr_jc-204-pawnee

but this is one of the pics , i mean.
the width is more, than the hight from floor to underside-roof.

shorty_5_wooden_passenger_car

#12

Kalmbach’s “Model Railroads Got to War” shows 5’ gauge dominated the seceding states.

Eric