Large Scale Central

What scale is it?

General Discussion
#1

So Guys, I need some help. If I model at the exacting scale of 1:21.4 (which is half way between 1:20.3 and 1:22.5) what would On30 rolling stock be if it is running on HO 1:87 track? How about standard gauge 4ft. 8 1/2 inches HO equipment running on HO track in a 1:21.4 World?

So the guys were talking. Here you can see the On30 Climax getting ready to all the cinder cars back up to the engine shops pit.

An overhead shot shows Ken running the models of GP30’s pulling a consist on the lower line. Looks a little like this picture, doesn’t it?

I’ll write more about what I’m doing in the On30 portion of the Forum.

#2

Hi Rick
How close it that to Gn15?
Dou

#3

21.4 divided by 87 comes out to .245977.

I could get a t-shirt made stating “Of course the .5977 is important. Why would you ask?”

So I guess the HO is right at 1/24, so that will make Gary and HLW happy.

The 30 inch is a bigger challenge to my little brain and calculator. 4 ft 8 1/2 inches is 56.5 inches, but that means little to nothing to this calculation. However, I guess the 30 inch is 1:5309734 to O scale track, which is what? 1:48

Basically, it seems like the HO track is like 1.5 foot gauge track to the large scale track and my guys can run industrial stuff on it if you think that the large sclae trakc is around 3 feet. Or if somebody wants to model standard gauge equipment in my large scale world and think that those HO tracks are a scale 4 ft 8.5 inches, that’s okay. I know guys in large scale that call that 1.75 between the rails - standard gauge, narrow gauge, industrial gauge or whatever. Its a model railroad and we are having fun.

Bring your HO equipment over and we can put a guy in a trailcar behind it and you can run it just like you are running a real model railroad that you can ride in or behind. We don’t care, we are just palying with trains. You know to those guys, those engines and cars are big and heavy. I think the KVRwy has some flat car loads. Now I’m going to have to build a transfer dock. Will this work never end?

#4

So I guess that N Scale stuff added to a 1:29 layout would appear as though it was 1:29 in the 1:1 world.

Did I say that right?

#5

Ric, you need to invert this ratio to get the scale you are looking for.
If you do that, you will get 4.06542056075 which brings you close to 1:4 scale, or 3inch to the foot scale if you prefer imperial scale formula. So you can make a t-shirt saying “Of course the .06542056075 is important. Why would you ask?” Please note that you need to keep the zeros after the decimal point to make this statement meaningful (that would be .005977 correction to the inverted scale ratio in your original note).
Standard gauge in 1:4 scale would run on 14.125 inch gauge (or 360mm, which in your 1:21.4 world is HO gauge of course.
On30 translates to 1:2.24 scale which runs on 13.375 inch gauge (340mm) which again in your 1:21.4 world is represented by HO gauge.
Hope this helps, with best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi

Ric Golding said:
21.4 divided by 87 comes out to .245977.

I could get a t-shirt made stating “Of course the .5977 is important. Why would you ask?”
[…]

#6

Zubi,

Thanks, I think.

I’m so confused. :wink:

Is the HO basically quarter gauge or 1:4 on 3 foot track?
Doesn’t the track width have to be reflected?

Is the On30 basically half gauge or 1:2.24 on 3 foot track?
Again, what about the track width? On30 is O narrow gauge which would run on 30 inch track in the real world.

I think my model railroad is going to need a “standards committee” to prevent the fights going on inside my head.

You know that “glassy eye” look people give you when you try to explain scale to an HO guy that has inquired about what scale is the trains running on the track in the large scale world? I’ve got the same glassy eyed look coming out my mind’s eyes. I sure am glad that I just enjoy model trains, all scales and all gauges.

#7

Ric, I understand that this can be confusing, I can try to help explain.
If I understand correctly what you want to achieve - but I think I do
because you provided pictures. You want to run HO standard gauge
and On30 narrow gauge inside your Large Scale layout (which you
describe as 1:21.4 “on average”(
In that case, HO scale (standard gauge) represents quarter scale indeed
that is 1:4. For standard gauge HO the track you need is indeed HO.
If you would like to have 3ft gauge that is HOn3 your scale still remains
quarter scale but the gauge would need be smaller than HO and precisely
10.5mm. But this is not a standard gauge so you would need to use N gauge
(which is 9mm so a bit too narrow but this is what people commonly use)
So everything remains except that you refer to your HO scale as 1:4 or
indeed quarter scale in your large scale world!
O scale is twice as large more or less so you refer to it as 1:2 or half scale!
And the track is O gauge for if you want to represent standard gauge in your
half scale or HO gauge in case you want to run 30inch prototypes - as 30 inch
is roughly half of the standard gauge track.
I hope this helps and if not please ask me again - I will be happy to help
setting standards for your layout.
Best regards, Zubi
PS I still have the envelope you sent me once, with K-27 plans which I also keep.

Ric Golding said:
Zubi,

Thanks, I think.

I’m so confused. :wink:

Is the HO basically quarter gauge or 1:4 on 3 foot track?
Doesn’t the track width have to be reflected?

Is the On30 basically half gauge or 1:2.24 on 3 foot track?
Again, what about the track width? On30 is O narrow gauge which would run on 30 inch track in the real world.

I think my model railroad is going to need a “standards committee” to prevent the fights going on inside my head.

You know that “glassy eye” look people give you when you try to explain scale to an HO guy that has inquired about what scale is the trains running on the track in the large scale world? I’ve got the same glassy eyed look coming out my mind’s eyes. I sure am glad that I just enjoy model trains, all scales and all gauges.

#8

I’m planning a Gn15 track serving the mines on my layout. I recently purchased an On30 0 -4-0 that I will convert to a Gn15 mining engine. Pico is making Gn15 track that is HO cale width with G scale ties.

#9

Zubi,

I still have your Netherlands address in my Rolodex. Those Industrial magazines you sent me are probably the fodder behind all of this, plus a bunch of already laid HO track that was begging to be used. Thanks for your help. Fun is just a state of mind.

Doug,

Do you have a reference to that Piko track?

Maybe I could call this G/Fn15, unless we are running models of standard gauge equipment that is showing up about the scale of amusement park rides, then it would G/Fs15. We could just call it running little stuff on the bigger stuff layout and enjoying life.

#10

That would be Peco track…not Piko. I don’t know if they make the Gn15 stuff but they do make the SM32 (O gauge with G ties). You might want to poke around the following site: http://gn15.info

#11

Thanks for that spelling correction. They used to sell Gn15 track but I don’t think they do antmore.

#12

The spelling confusion is going to get worse now that Piko has entered the G scale track business.

#13
Warren Mumpower said:
That would be Peco track...not Piko. I don't know if they make the Gn15 stuff but they do make the SM32 (O gauge with G ties). You might want to poke around the following site: http://gn15.info
I've been on that site before, but obviously I need to look at it more often. Thanks for the reference.
#14

And here’s another size reference. Taken in 2004. I’m not sure what the gauge is, I think it’s 7.25" modeling in 1:1.5 (1.5 Inches to the foot).

(http://lsc.cvsry.com/MattGP.JPG)

Theres a nice detail in the cab of this engine that makes it believable as a small scale model - the Briggs & Stratton OHV V-Twin 20 HP gasoline engine. The same exact motor in my Craftsman lawn tractor. Jon

#15
Ric Golding said:
Zubi,

I still have your Netherlands address in my Rolodex. Those Industrial magazines you sent me are probably the fodder behind all of this, plus a bunch of already laid HO track that was begging to be used. Thanks for your help. Fun is just a state of mind.


Ric, my address in the Netherlands is still valid but I suppose I will sell the house in a year or two. I am happy to hear that the Narrow Gauge and Industrial Ralways gave you the inspiration!

Ric Golding said:
Maybe I could call this G/Fn15, unless we are running models of standard gauge equipment that is showing up about the scale of amusement park rides, then it would G/Fs15. We could just call it running little stuff on the bigger stuff layout and enjoying life.
If I may give you some suggestions, I think that G/2 or F/2 or even LS/2 would be appropriate to describe your half scale, while G/4 or F/4 or even LS/4 would good for quarter scale in your G or F, or 1:20.4 world (LS) Alternatively, a numerical descriptor is also possible but less transparant. 1:22.5/2 or 1:21.4/2

All the above define standard gauge in these scales so if you would like to indicate that you
are using narrow gauge, for example

(G/2)n30 or (LS/4)m or (F/2)n2 for 30inch, meter, and two feet gauges in your scale world, respectively

Best regards, Zubi

#16
Zbigniew Struzik said:
If I may give you some suggestions, I think that G/2 or F/2 or even LS/2 would be appropriate to describe your half scale, while G/4 or F/4 or even LS/4 would good for quarter scale in your G or F, or 1:20.4 world (LS) Alternatively, a numerical descriptor is also possible but less transparant. 1:22.5/2 or 1:21.4/2

All the above define standard gauge in these scales so if you would like to indicate that you
are using narrow gauge, for example

(G/2)n30 or (LS/4)m or (F/2)n2 for 30inch, meter, and two feet gauges in your scale world, respectively

Best regards, Zubi


Zubi,

Thank you. I think you caught on to what I wanted. Nothing like the crazy world of model railroading.

#17

If my buddy ever finishes them (He promised 3 weeks - It’s been over 3 years) I will have a set of Gn15 park train coaches…but I think I sold off the Mogul I had to pull them. :frowning:

Note to self: Next time he pops up on IM bust his chops about it.

Second note to self: Next time somebody offers to do something nice for you in exchange for something you have, DON’T send the “payment” with the “project”

#18

if they do show up what do you have to pull them with?