Large Scale Central

What is the best product to "dull" a finish

General Discussion
#1

I’ve spent the last 2-3 weeks on and off weathering an engine. My final step was a matte clear coat to tie all the weathering products together and dull the remaining original paint.

Today I sprayed it all down with Rustoleum Matte Clear. I had a can of Testors Dullcoat, but it was too old and wouldn’t spray correctly, so I didn’t use it. The Rustoleum is not really matte, it is much more of a satin finish, which is way too shiny.

Should I go buy a new can of Dullcoat, or is there another product that gives good results? I remember hearing of a product called Dead Flat but I can’t remember who made it or where to buy it.

#2

I guess I should have used Search first. Good post on this subject here http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=11664

#3

Let me also add [u]DO NOT[/u] use the Rustoleum Painter’s Touch Matte Clear product over multiple colors and washes. It is a lacquer and the thinners burned through all of the subtle weathering blending it into a blah semi-gloss color.

I never liked Rustoleum and should have known better, but I was in a hurry to get this project off the bench and I had it in-stock. Unfortunately, now I need to start over, which I have zero ambition to do at this point.

Moral of the story: Come to LSC, use Search FIRST before spraying.

#4

Would’ve warned you aboutg the Rustoleum if I’d had time to respond to your first post … it also eats plastic if you’re not careful.

OTOH, the matte spray clear that Krylon makes works pretty well. Available hereabouts at wal-mart … most paint stores that carry Krylon won’t have it, but will order it for you provided you buy a case, and pay for shipping to the store. Which would mean you’d be better off just ordering it online and having it shipped to you … if you wanted a case. Walmart by the can seems to be the thing, even though I hate going in that place!

#5

Thanks Matthew. I sprayed before posting, so your warning would have been too late anyway. The model is a brass live-steam Shay, so no worries about plastic, but I’m now frustrated to the point of just dumping the parts in a box and forgetting it.

#6
Jon Radder said:
Thanks Matthew. I sprayed before posting, so your warning would have been too late anyway. The model is a brass live-steam Shay, so no worries about plastic, but I'm now frustrated to the point of just dumping the parts in a box and forgetting it.
You are prepared to DUMP a live-steam Shay? Holy cow!! Did you just win the State Lottery or sumpn'? :O

Send it to me if you don’t want it, better yet, GIVE it to me at the next invasion. :slight_smile:

Best

tac
www.ovgrs.org

#7

I’ve used the Krylon acrylic matte medium with great success. From time to time I find it in art supply stores or craft stores like Micheal’s. I’ve even found it from time to time in my local Ace Hardware.

Micheal’s and other art/craft stores always have an acrylic matte medium with and without UV protection. Artists of various ilk like photographers use the matte medium to protect their stuff. I try to shoot everything once a year, but sometimes life gets in the way.

#8
Terry A de C Foley said:
Jon Radder said:
Thanks Matthew. I sprayed before posting, so your warning would have been too late anyway. The model is a brass live-steam Shay, so no worries about plastic, but I'm now frustrated to the point of just dumping the parts in a box and forgetting it.
You are prepared to DUMP a live-steam Shay? Holy cow!! Did you just win the State Lottery or sumpn'? :O

Send it to me if you don’t want it, better yet, GIVE it to me at the next invasion. :slight_smile:

Best

tac
www.ovgrs.org


The box is definitely not going anywhere near the trash :slight_smile: It was a gift from Marilyn, back when she had some cash. It may now look horrible, but it’s still a working engine.

Just a huge amount frustration. After weeks of adding different colors, black washes, brown washes, charcoal powder, and all manner of weathering paints, I was finally happy with the result. I needed to dull down the boiler to go with the weathered wood parts so I thought I’d spray the whole thing to lock-in the washes, etc. and protect them from the water and oil that will come. Unfortunately spraying with Rustoleum was the equivalent of lacquer thinner wash. Everything just ran together to create a mud color.

I may hit it once with the Krylon and see if any of it comes back some.

#9

Jon,
The Krylon is hot as well and have found it to eat even it’s own stuff if put on too heavy, when you get back to a point of dull coat, lightly mist your first coat. I will never work with rustolem again (well maybe) but it’s very difficult too work with. Good news is there is no plastic involved on your end so if your feeling brave and un enviornmental you could go to Napa and get some GOOD brake clean and soak the loco in that if it’s all metal parts your dealin’ with. That stuff will eat the quills off a porcupines ass. When I built my metal bridges I spray them down with brake clean and let them dry before painting.

#10

ModelMaster’s brush on flat acrylic clear coat works great for smaller projects.

-Brian

#11

I like the Krylon UV Matte spray. However, I’ve mostly used it over craft acrylics, so I don’t know how compatible it might be with other types of paint.

I like artist’s matte medium for some things. I use it a lot for touching up things that have acquired an unwanted gloss due to glues or solvents. It also seems to work pretty well as a glue in some cases. For instance, I used it to adhere and seal some “rolled roofing” on one of my buildings.

#12
Ray Dunakin said:
I like the Krylon UV Matte spray. However, I've mostly used it over craft acrylics, so I don't know how compatible it might be with other types of paint.

I like artist’s matte medium for some things. I use it a lot for touching up things that have acquired an unwanted gloss due to glues or solvents. It also seems to work pretty well as a glue in some cases. For instance, I used it to adhere and seal some “rolled roofing” on one of my buildings.


Ray,
…I love the Krylon products just adding some additional warning from my own experience.
:wink:

#13

I’ve used Krylon matte for many years with good results, but last trip to Michael’s turned up a new product: Americana acrylic Sealer/Finisher, DAS13 Matte. On the back side of the spray can it says it is “a clear, protective, non-yellowing, water-roof coating which provides permanent protection to all painted finishes. Colors are intensified with clear depth and given a matte appearance with a single application. May be used on wood, ceramics, plaster, papier-maché, and other craft products. Fast drying.” I don’t know that it is “best”, but it worked fine on the deck girder bridge I built several weeks ago.

#14

I use Behlen Dead Flat Spray. Although I haven’t used it on something hot like a live steamer. If properly shaken it is absolutely “dead flat”. So far I’ve used it over Krylon and Bondo products with no ill effects. It also literally welded decals down although I’ve only used it once for that purpose so far so it’s hardly a scientific test.

Dead Flat is available from Woodworker’s Supply and is shipped via UPS. About $7.95 per can with progressive discounts beginning with 4 cans. I’ve had no problem with the nozzles clogging either but I make sure the product is warmed before spraying.

#15

Mornin’, nephew. Me and ig have been watching the lighthouse since about 2.30 this morning, just to make sure no scumbags come and shoot it up. You’ll be pleased to hear that so far it seems to be hole-free.

BTW - we use Krylon products a lot over here. And Dull-cote, too.

But I have to say that I’ve never tried extensive weathering on a live-steamer. Mine eventually acquire a genteel ‘used sheen’ but if we ever had to ‘move them on’ - post mortem, I hope - nobody would buy such weathered model here in Yoorop.

tac
www.ovgrs.org

#16

A wise old fellow once told me the primary difference between the traditional Dullcote and the Krylon Matte overspray is that the former is NOT waterproof, while the latter is… which, even if you’re not running in a foul weather environment can make a difference, with things like humidity, and so forth. I’ll have to look at one of my cans to see if the Krylon is UV resist as well.

And… yes, MIST. Not just the first coat. Get carried away, it’ll fog a milky white color. While some of this goes away as it dries, you can be left with a mess if you’re unlucky. Even then, there are potential corrections, but none are easy. So, mist, until you get the look you need.

My $ .02 … from my limited experience, and tendency to learn everything the hard way.

Matthew (OV)

#17
Matthew (OV) said:
A wise old fellow once told me the primary difference between the traditional Dullcote and the Krylon Matte overspray is that the former is NOT waterproof, while the latter is.... which, even if you're not running in a foul weather environment can make a difference, with things like humidity, and so forth. I'll have to look at one of my cans to see if the Krylon is UV resist as well.

And… yes, MIST. Not just the first coat. Get carried away, it’ll fog a milky white color. While some of this goes away as it dries, you can be left with a mess if you’re unlucky. Even then, there are potential corrections, but none are easy. So, mist, until you get the look you need.

My $ .02 … from my limited experience, and tendency to learn everything the hard way.

Matthew (OV)


100% agree.

Mind you, I only do it on sparkies or cars, not live-steam models…

tac
www.ovgrs.org

#18

I have been using the krylon flat clear coat. Have not had any problems with it yet and I have used it on just about all my rolling stock and engines. I just use very light coats and keep adding until I think it is enough.

#19
Richard Smith said:
I use Behlen Dead Flat Spray. Although I haven't used it on something hot like a live steamer. If properly shaken it is absolutely "dead flat". So far I've used it over Krylon and Bondo products with no ill effects. It also literally welded decals down although I've only used it once for that purpose so far so it's hardly a scientific test.

Dead Flat is available from Woodworker’s Supply and is shipped via UPS. About $7.95 per can with progressive discounts beginning with 4 cans. I’ve had no problem with the nozzles clogging either but I make sure the product is warmed before spraying.


Richard,

When the directions on the can say “Use between 70 and 90 degrees F,” are they talking about the air temp, the temp of the spray can contents, or the temp of the target?

#20

In my experience-all of the above.
Randy