Large Scale Central

What Battery would you recommend?

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

Last year I bought a 12 volt closed cell lead battery to power my leaf blower and when the snow started falling it went into my home built rotary. The blower car has a 12 volt 5" attwood bilge blower fan. The rotary has a 12 volt cordless drill chuck turning a 5" metal blade. With that battery I could power the cars for over 30 minutes. I went to charge it up and now it is not holding a charge.

This battery cost me about $20.

What Battery would you recommend to replace it? Would it be OK if I went to a 14 volt battery or more or would it fry the motors that were designed for 12 volts. I think the blower would be OK but it might not be a a good idea for drill motor.

Did I mention I don’t want to spend a lot on the new battery?

#2

I’d go with the same sealed lead acid type. For your application the added weight is a benefit as well as the low cost. These batteries like to sit on a float charge like they do in emergency lighting and alarm systems. You can get a nice 12V float charger at Harbor freight for about $5 and your $20 battery should last at least two years.

#3

Yea, I would really hesitate in putting 14.4 volts into a 12 volt motor. Some can take it, and others cannot.

#4

Todd,

What size and or capacity is the failed lead acid battery?

SLA batteries are known to last for years and are generally pretty resilient, I’d be asking myself why did the battery last ONLY 12 months?

Can you describe how the battery was used, was it partially or fully discharged, what was the charging regimen employed and what kind of charger was utilized?

Michael

#5

The failed battery doesn’t have too many markings on it. It reads ZIPPBATTERY sealed rechargeable battery.

It measures 3.5 x 2.75 x 4.

Since it is a 12 volt I charged it with the charger I use on my cars and boat, after a few hours it is charged. I ran the battery down pretty low.

It sounds like it should be on a float charge like Daktah recommends when not in use.

#6

An additional comment, there are chargers with a bit more smarts than to just maintain a constant low current, look for those, they periodically send a higher voltage anti-sulphating charge to keep the battery in good shape.

Like all lead acid batteries, they tend to sulphate if not exercised.

I found a great one, http://www.amazon.com/CTEK-800-Smart-Battery-Charger/dp/B002QUT8IC/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1443228071&sr=8-15&keywords=12v+maintenance+charger

Made in Germany I believe, I use it on my european cars that have lots of electronics that must be kept alive, and expensive batteries.

Greg

#7

Todd,

A larger capacity would likely yield better performance and life cycle. Based solely on dimensions I’d suggest you have a 12V/5.0Ah SLA battery. These can deliver 9V @ 5 Amps for 30 minutes.

Cordless drills are known to be HUNGRY, a 12V drill typically pulls at least 10 Amps under load at peak efficiency.

The cycle life of an SLA is directly related to the depth of discharge, regular discharging to even 50% DOD (Depth of Discharge) is known to adversely affect cycle life, and 30% is the magic number for this chemistry.

Your charger probably didn’t help either, 25% of rated capacity is right for SLA. In your case 5.0Ah/25%=1.25A charge rate. SLA. SLA should be charged every three months and stored fully charged and or a float charger can be employed.

Do you have room for a larger battery?

Michael

#8

Michael, while I know that many batteries cannot discharge at C, wouldn’t you get at least 12v 5 amps for at least 1/2 hour?

You should be able to discharge at .5C which would be 12v, 2.5 amps for 2 hours.

Maybe I am missing something?

Greg

#9

Todd,

All leaf blowers needs a HRD battery-pack (high rate discharge). Voltage is not the problem, a SLA or Gel Cell battery is not manufactured to give you or your leaf blower a higher rate of current for a long time. SLA batteries are designed for stable, constant voltage and the amp draw is constant but not able to drive and leaf-blower, weed whacker or even a snow thrower for your application.

I have two of the same 12v & 24V inline attwood boat motor (cooling fans or boat motors) blower that you have and I also use it as a track cleaner for leaves, pine needles and/or toads. Each of those motors require a 2.9amp draw, the rating of the motor is listed on the side of the plastic casing. The 12V motor is rated at 21 volts capacity and the 24V motor is rated at 36 volts capacity. It’s indicated on the side of their motor specifications. I use a 18.5V 3000mah 26650 lithium-ion HRD battery-pack and my blower motor runs and cleans my track very will. This is the same battery I use in my snow thrower, here’s a link to that video: https://www.cordlessrenovations.com/?page_id=3574

In a nut-shell, you don’t have enough voltage and/or amp draw to operate this motor.

#10

Greg,

Nope, not according to a Power Sonic cut sheet I found with discharge curves; 2.5A @ 12.5>12V is attainable for about 30 minutes. One can expect to realize 11.0V @ 2.5 Amps after 1 hour.

The 5.0 Amp curve depicts starting voltage depressed, maybe 11.9V and falls to 11.0V in 20 minutes and then drops like a rock in 10 minutes to 9.0V.

Michael

#11

The problem is space restrictions in both the rotary which is built using a USAT boxcar and the blower car with a chopped down bobber caboose which houses the battery.

What I might need to do is get 2-3 batteries and put them in a trailing car towed behind the engine as part of the work train and wired to the blower or rotary.

The dimensions of the battery is critical. Weight is also a concern. Smaller lighter batteries equal less overall power, a catch 22 in our RR world.

#12

That’s really neat Todd… Can we see the rotary?

Were you satisfied with the performance of the blower and plow? $20.00 for a battery that may last a year or better, especially with the proper charger and care is doable IMO. If performance was lack luster and or you need more time to play between charges a battery tender sounds very viable.

Are you using any other battery technologies?

Michael

#13

How fast is it in reverse?

Wicked cool.

Battery car and lead shot in boose and under the nozzle, should there be a floor.

John

#14

Thanks guys. I wanted to build the blower so it actually sort of kinda maybe looks like a possible prototype piece from another dimension…

The old battery gave decent performance and I could make multiple passes on my 500 plus foot RR with both machines.

Here is a photo of the rotary.

The rotary in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjBkyWlQ6hI

The blower in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KajS4vaw8Pc

#15

I’ve been running my snow blower that has an old 12v drill motor with a 18 volt B&D battery. Spins it faster than the 12v I was using. Ron Senek suggested that, he does the same thing with his. I did recently get a different motor and blade, but have yet to replace the old setup, since I’m old and lazy!

#16

I can’t argue with Rick and Gavin’s science, but your real world experience supports my original recommendation. Stick with the SLA for $20.

#17

Todd,

The plow looks like it works pretty good, nice job. Maybe consider a larger battery for the plow.

Michael

#18

I have been going back and forth with this battery issue and may have come to a solution. I have a dewalt 18volt cordless drill and the 2 batteries that came with it are failing. They charge up but don’t hold it for long. These batteries are about 9 years old now and have seen much use over the years especially when I worked in property management.

A quick check on Ebay shows thee battery packs go for $40- $60 for 2 depending on the 2000mah or 3000mah rating. Its a win win I can use one in the trains when needed and I already have the charger. I did a quick test with both motors and they didn’t blow up so that is good. I will have to do a bit of remodeling on both the blower and rotary but that is OK.

Am I missing any negatives?

Thanks for all the info guys.

#19

Todd,

Nothing wrong with multi tasking your batteries. No negatives far as I can see. 18V it the scheme of things shouldn’t be a problem, especially when you consider your not always running at full speed. I multi task my LiPo batteries, trains, planes and quadcopters works great for me.

May I offer that you be careful in your battery acquisition, make sure purchase the batteries designed for you charger… I have a multiplel cordless tools at work and home, the newer tools utilize the lithium batteries, while the older stuff has viable NiMH batteries. Either battery chemistry works/fits in all the tools. Problem is charging lithium batteries with a NiMH charger ruins the lithium batteries (even after alerting the guys of this issue, several batteries were damaged) go figure, arghh.

Michael