Large Scale Central

Walthers: More adventures in marketing Large Scale

General Discussion
#1

Walthers, “Your Number One Resource for Model Railroad Product Information”, lists in its March, “Walthers mailer FLYER”, a new look-it-up “Large Scaler E-Flyer” as a supplement to their mailer. The March mailer listed only four items in “G”, so the “Large Scaler” site was toggled up. Among a number of “O” scale products and a few non-branded “G” prducts, , the only listing was LGB track - some ten offerings at retail prices. For example, packed in the all-familiar LGB red box was a package of two 10002 300 mm (11.8") track for 19.98. the LGB R1 turnout was retailing for 59.98 each. With no brand name, and a different number catagory, was a waterproof switch machine that I had never seen before numbered as 614 -11298 for 20.00 each. Shock! Only $20. How reasonable, waterproof no less with wiring included. I wondered if it was also offered by Train-Li-USA. With the same 614 listing, there were offerings in brass track. No brand names were given.

Considering these LGB and non-identified mfg. products were not listed on the pages of the flyer, and the continual omission of LGB in its regular monthly flyer pages, I suspect that Walthers is less than enthusiastic about promoting LGB or large scale products. Since no “sale” prices and only LGB “retail” prices were listed, it might be Walters does not want to undercut what little sales there are at the hobby shop level. Otherwise, I hope LGB is not trying to control pricing at the consumer level – adding to memories of a failed effort years ago.

Let the saga continue.

Wendell

#2

LGB is Marklin, and they have never been interested in "discount’ marketing. Walthers is just a distributor, its not like they have tons of stuff in a warehouse anymore, any orders they get are placed electronicly with the mfr who then ships direct from the mfrs warehouse, so Marklin can only price what Marklin will allow.

I have given up ever being able to afford anything new from the revamped LGB/Marklin, its simply been too expensive, and most of the offerings are too european for my needs. I’m not surprised by all of this, it was just logical given Marklins own history with the brands they own.

#3

Walthers is showing 274 LGB items in stock this morning.

<<Catalog Last Updated 18-Mar-2011
For pictures, click on highlighted product name.
Showing 1 - 274 of 274 Products >>

#4

Knowing Walthers that might mean 274 pieces of track :slight_smile:

#5

In addition to the above information, Walthers almost always shows list prices with no sales or discounts. Since they are a distributor that supplies retail sellers, they do not want to be seen as undercutting those retailers.

I see Walthers as doing a reasonably good job of supporting and distributing the Marklin products, even in this down economy. And no, I am not a koolaid drinker. None of the former LGB, now Marklin stuff meets my needs or interests.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#6

Victor may have the analysis: Marklin does not have or does not provide the products for the monthly Walthers mailer, The FLYER. If Walther’s monthly is an sole indicator, LGB does not exist.

#7

I thumbed thru the new LGB 2011 catalog at my LHS yesterday.
All the US outlines are typical LGB–re-paints.
They even show the Sumpter Valley Mallet.

#8

John-
Any estimates as to the re-paints being newly “minted” products from China or? Does the catalogue, tiny print or otherwise, offer mfg. origin? I’m hesitant to buy any of the new locos engineered under the Marklin ownership because of the recent LSC contributors evaluations of rolling stock quality.
Wendell

#9

I forgot to look for the country of origin.
I’ll do it this week.

#10

I wonder how some of you manage to get European products at a reasonable price .
I was saddened to see (in Garden Rail Mag) an advert for large scale stuff at twice the price we pay in the UK .
Does postage from Germany or the UK cost so much that it is not worth buying at our prices ?
We are fortunate enough to be able to buy US manufactured stuff at a similar price to what you pay in the States .
Perhaps our dealers are not so greedy , or competition here keeps prices down .
Why are there not more stockists in the US ? Do local model shops get put off by the constant drip , drip, drip of
unfavourable comments about the models we enjoy here ? It seems that European companies can do nothing right
in the eyes of some hobbyists . We don’t make enough American outline , but when we do , it’s crap . Not much
enticement to get newcomers into the hobby .

#11

Mike, if you want real fun, look at US outline H0 modelling. More negative comments than in LS, if that is possible. One reason I gave it up.

#12

More Walthers April mailing of its monthly “FLYER” puzzlement: No listing of any “G” or “O” products. None. Zero. This is the retail and sale monthly with at least 60 pages of HO and N rolling stock, locos, track, and scenery. Perhaps, one of our readers knows if Marklin is selling off their LGB interest. Otherwise, what is the advantage of the singular USA distributor making LGB reclusive?
Puzzling.

Wendell

#13

Wendell, you do realize that the sale flyer is just that, a sale flyer of clearance, special offiers, and overstocks. And it irritates more than a few LHSs when a customer comes in with the flyer and expects to get the discount from their local Walthers dealer, as sometimes the “sale” price is below what the dealer paid.

Another way to look at it, the local Wal-Mart does not have everything in the store in their flyer.

#14

Garrett-
Good point, the irritation of customers reporting to shop owners when they see lower prices in the monthly “Flyer.” This is the very same complaint store owners have with Model Railroader’s mail order house ads. So the strange conclusion is why would the singular most popular model RR guage – HO – be advertised in a monthly to then endure the rath of customers badgering shop owners? The answer is there are few shops left for readers of the Flyer to even see model trains, yet alone buy the same products they saw in a monthly flyer. These are shop owners that Walthers may supply wholesale so why would they injure sales at the shops if it were a problem?
Conclusion: The hobby is not prolific with hobby stores carrying model trains – let alone any “G” gauge – and the singular most powerful way to reach those potential customers is not have them drive 50 miles+ to a store that may have 1/100th of the HO and N listings in the flyer. Instead, Walthers wants people to order via mail – at mostly FULL retail prices. My guess is Walthers is seeking the void left by shop owners who have left their stores.
Still, my question still stands: Why does Walthers now choose to omit in their monthly any reference to the very product for which they have an exclusive? Do they not still have the exclusive distributorship of the singular most known large scale company in the world?

Wendell

#15

The May edition of the 70 page Walthers FLYER arrived. While 1 1/2 pages on “O” scale, none for “G” or any reference to “large scale.” Nothing makes sense unless Marklin has refused to list their products in the FLYER – however, Walthers IS the distributor of Marklin LGB products, so that reasoning fails.
My guess is there is no LGB production allocated for sale other than to some contracted retailers such as TrainWorld.

Meanwhile, the Schwinn, the Harley Davidson, of large scale is given a backseat to promoting the hobby – for reasons we may never know.
Wendell

#16

Walthers has NEVER really pushed G, as far back as I can remember, and it doesnt help when Marklin appears to have pushed America into the backset of importance, yes, I know they are offering some more US profile items, but they are just repaints and reisssued same old same old, the european and world markets have their fullest attemtion right now.

#17

They used to have a full line LS catalog years ago. Again, not surprised that nothing is in the sale flyer. Realize that items in there are a sign of no sales or “oops” Vs. sucess from a business standpoint, and should be taken as a GOOD sign. (We bought too many and now have to flog them). I would be a LOT more worried about the future of Marklin & LGB if there was a glut of it in the flyer.

#18

I puoght one 10 wheeler set at Walthers catalog sale price from my local hobby shop, now gone!
:(=( And we called and I got the price and the shop got a discount from their order. But I’m not surprised that there was nothing in the latest mailing. It went into the recycle box!

Paul

#19

A hobby shop 75 x 50 foot in size, in Mississippi - for trains, planes, boats, cars, and crafts - had one 15’ long shelf with HO and N guage, plus some “O” items. No “G” from either B’mann, Aristo., or U.S.A. “Takes too much space, and besides, there’s no demand 'cause ya’ll understand it is not promoted,” retorted one of the owners. The store was essentially model airplanes, model cars, boats, and craft items.

One of two of our own local hobby shops - planes, boats, model cars, and a little of B’mann trains, went out of business. it was a franchise “Hobby People.” There’s one small all-of-everything store left in the city. From there, its twenty miles to one of two stores carrying trains.

This is Southern California, the land of 360 days of train runnin’ time! Meanwhile, adults are on the soccer field or in tilt-ups watching one of 30 volley ball courts and their kids burning up energy on one of the hundreds of So.Calif. “club” teams. Ah, yes, what kid ever got a college scholarship because of skills in creating and operating a garden layout? No, the driving family gimmick is “club” ball. Sorry, no club sports experience, then no high school team play! Coaches don’t – they manage the successes of their pre-skilled players. In short, the hobby of model trains outdoors belongs to older adults – and the mfg.s still don’t reach them. Did someone say garden magazines and garden clubs?

Wendell

#20

Wendell,
one has only to do a price comparison on ‘Buy iy Now’ items on eBay to see why largescale items do not sell in stores. The ‘real’ shops, brick and mortar corner stores have Bachmann at ridiculously high prices when compared to normal outlet prices. For example, Big Hauler coaches at $105.00, centre cupola caboose at $125.00 and K-27 at $1195.00. First reaction is who are these people kidding, but in reality, they are charging the recommended manufacturer retail pricing. Who pays MSRP these days? The internet has made buyers more savvy when it comes to what is available and stores are not mobile enough in their cost structure to compete with the discount outlets on the internet.

      One story had internet competition as a reason for Ridge Road closing their doors (not true as a 'second' retirement was the apparent reason), however, Ridge Road was a seemingly major internet player in sales. Walthers is known for its strict 'no discount' wholesale pricing policy,  so how can they even compete with the internet?   Largescale is very much a niche market with a limited life expectancy.  The majority of purchasers are post war baby boomers.

      I feel that the manufacturers have caused the demise of largescale by their MSRP policies.  Take Bachmann for instance.  The projected MSRP for their 4-4-0 and moguls was $795.00 and yet they walk out the door at $200.00 upwards. Three truck Shays , MSRP at $1295.00 and yet street savvy purchasers get them for $295.00 upwards.  Potential purchasers are frightened off by these unrealistic pricing policies, leading to potential modellers remaining in their existing gauge/scale modelling and not embracing a change to largescale.

      LGB got a toehold by offering starter sets at ridiculously low prices when sold as sets, as compared to individually pricing items.  Bachmann can offer Anniversary locomotives in starter sets for contractor companies (Sam's Club for example) and yet supplies only the basic locomotive to the hobbyist at set prices higher than contractor companies retail their sets for.  Sam's Club sets were retailing for lower prices than one could purchase just the Anniversary locomotive.  The hobbyist is taken for a ride and a trip to the cleaners.  Maybe manufacturers will wake up to the fact that potential sales are limited to a very few number of hobbyists and will treat their customers with a little respect.

      Marklin has come under criticism recently for falling production standards with their shift in manufacturing to their Chinese supplier.  Even their European sourced product is being criticised for poor assembly and missing parts.  This,  coupled with markedly increasing prices has left many a sour taste on one's mouth.