Large Scale Central

V&T Ore Car Project

I’ve been pecking away on something I’ve wanted to do since my entry into the hobby in 2010: a model of the V&T iron bottom-dump ore car, which hauled silver & gold ore from the Comstock mines to the various mills.

I attempted such a model back in 2010, but it was crap, and had little resemblance. I tried a couple other times, but was always discouraged by the fact that the V&T was standard gauge, and my layout is basically narrow gauge, because one can’t reasonably acquire early American 2-4-0’s or moguls in 1/32.

But, there was a recent breakthrough: the V&T managed to narrow-gauge six of their cars, to sell them off to another concern. That gives me permission to model this in F scale, both standard and narrow. I hope to display the former at the V&T convention, and build a fleet of the latter for my layout.

More later…

The cars were hauled in strings, which were assembled near the Virginia City roundhouse before their trip to the mills in the Carson River valley. All this was standard gauge.

As I mentioned, the V&T later re-gauged 6 cars to 36" and sold them. They would haul soda ash near Keeler, CA.

I’m making the design model per photos and drawings of the standard gauge car (there are no known drawings of it after re-gauging) in F scale.

Brass parts are meant to be brass, but some fasteners may get switched to Ozark (samples are on the way). Wheels represent 26", and a Bachmann set is very close. Black is intended to be 3d printed. Wood is wood. Bin doors will not be operable.

The 36" gauge version has been interesting, because if the wheels were simply brought in on the axles, they’d hit the bin. My solution at the moment has been to push the pedestals outward by (scale) 3" each, but this may not be correct. A historian who specializes in the V&T said that since the coupler pocket may also need to be lowered to around 24", they may have used smaller wheels, and killed two birds with one stone. This is under discussion, but for now I’m using the same wheels and moving the pedestals out.

The narrow gauge Bachmann axles need extending, since the journals and side sills need to remain outboard. I’m planning on sprung journal boxes and McMaster springs; but that will take experimenting. I’ll probably have to use a 3d printing service to have the journal parts printed in something like black nylon.

I’ve contacted Iron Creek Shops, and hope they can provide 26" wheel on a standard gauge axle, we’ll see. I may use their coupler pocket or Ozark’s, or print them in nylon, another TBD.

Have you checked here for wheels/axels ?

Thanks Rick I don’t yet see where they offer F scale standard gauge (70.6mm) wheelsets though; have you seen them?

I’m realizing now that I made a pair of F standard trucks for a derrick a few years back. I can’t remember how I made the wheelsets but it looks like I pulled the wheels off and JB-welded them to brass rod…

[edit] After further rumination, and pulling a BM wheel off its axle, the axle issue seems to be solving itself. The BM wheels hold tightly onto a 3mm shaft, and can be gauged however wanted. All that’s needed is the spacer between the inside faces, and also outboard spacers for the NG version. Concentric tubes of 4 and 5 mm brass tubing can be used for those.

NG:

SG:

Cheers,
Cliff

Just show the freaking model cause it’s probably done anyway and quit dicking around!

I’ve been having some instructive discussions with a few V&T historian friends on the details of this car. They’re very knowledgeable about what evidence remains for these cars, are very good at paying attention to details in photos, and often know of further resources.

  • Most photos show that the bin was raised early on, by bringing its side brackets inward and downward. I need to rework my brackets accordingly.

  • One friend has a book of V&T shop records, which lists what materials and hardware went into the cars for their regauging to 36" (and general overhauling at that time). I’ll be comparing my results with this list, but have to promise myself to not get wrapped too tightly around this matter.

  • This list made no mention of new (smaller diameter) wheels being installed, to clear the bin or lower the coupler height to 24". The semi-original 26" wheels were retained during regauging. Will be staying with my 31mm Bachmann wheels then.

  • Same friend showed records of 16 (vs 6) cars being regauged and sold to this same outfit. No difference to my plan, but it demonstrates strength in numbers for this alteration.

  • I’d thought the brake wheel and brake beam linkage was moved in with the wheels; but thanks to the analysis of another friend, the brake wheel and brake beam longitudinal rods wnet outboard the wheels. I’ve adjusted the brake equipment accordingly.

  • While tracking down these things for myself, I noticed some bracing boards supporting the outboard platform planks which were not in any of the drawings. I’ve added those brace boards, mortised into the side sills.

  • For 36" wheel clearance beneath the bin, the consensus seems to be that the pedestals were not moved fore and aft, but the entire bin was spaced upward by around 3" probably by new spacer planks. I’ll keep the same 48" wheelbase (which is great), and am adding these new spacer boards. Discussion is ongoing on their placement & etc. though).

  • For coupler height, the consensus seems to be that they didn’t worry about it. Being “captive” cars on an isolated short line, the 36" gauge cars only had to connect with each other. Since no one knows the coupler height, I may keep it as the historical drawings suggest, or lower it, not sure; but ti appears I have some leeway.

  • And to connect to the loco, a Rooster Pole could be used. I reserve the right to employ said pole, though likely not with Grover attached. :wink:

Here’s those spacer boards, which may end up changing:

Cliff I had to look Rooster Poles up and now I can see why you posted it.

Attaching a long square post to shunt cars revealed that historically it has not always been Another useless post by Rooster.

🫨

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You forgot the nails dumass!

No nails needed, those spacer boards will get glued between the end sills beneath them and bin support beams above them. Since the model will have only cosmetic ends of the vertical bolts (between your circles), I’m not bothering with drilling for them at this point.

Ahhh, So the V&T glued them down! Ok, if you say so.

Yep, with E6000.Except it was E0023 back then.

I ain’t buying it Cliff!

Either you do it historically correct or we’re back to square one of “quit screwing around” and just show them built!

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FWIW, I’m trying to up my game a little in this effort in the area of fasteners…

  • I started with just using the closest brass items I could find. Unfortunately, Microfasteners dot com quit offering their #0 lag screws a few years ago, and no longer bother answering my emails on alternatives or restocking. So I’m stuck with #1, which are often too large. The advantage being that you can actually screw an “iron” (3DP) part to a real wood beam, which I think is cool.
  • I am also using (in the design model) #0 straight thread screws / nuts / washers, which are fine.
  • But when the screw length exceeds what is available, I’m using cut bolts on one side, and a nut / washer / piece of threaded rod on the other.
  • My intention though is to use fastener castings where possible, and where purely cosmetic.
  • Yesterday, I received all eleven nut-bolt-washer castings I could find at Ozark Miniatures,
  • This evening, I’ve modeled those up, and will replace brass items in the model where practical.
  • Also, I’ve ordered about 40 different NBW G/F scale castings from Iron Creek Shops, and will be measuring & modeling them as well.
  • More to come on all this.

I should have clarified that ICS sells individual NBW castings for 28 cents each, and that’s what I did for samples. I didn’t spent $hundreds$ for packs of each, like I would have with Ozark.

Cliff, i can probably identify some of the ICS NBW’S as i made the masters.

let me find the pdf tomorrow of all that i have done and will copy via PM.

AL P.

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If you get bored, a photo essay of castings from the different makers might be helpful as a reference.

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I’ll at least put up a chart, maybe more, we’ll see.

Much invisible work being done on this project, so I thought I’d give a virtual update.

I finally got the wood stock sorted for the framing (while leaving enough material for the trestle project, Sean). Need to get some additional cedar from Home Depot, yay they’re offering 1x3 planks here of red cedar, woo hoo!).

Basically it’ll be a matter of ripping and planing. Maybe table sawing some, with the help of this thing I just learned about.

More finalizing the fasteners all over the car, now with an emphasis of cost reduction. The Iron Creek samples will be here around Wednesday, so I hope to swap out some brass items with white metal ones.

Cheers,
Cliff

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In Microjig’s email notice of shipment, here’s their funny description of handling care:

Your Microjig product was gently lifted off our shelves by a team of highly trained artisans wearing microfiber gloves (polished hourly for maximum softness). It was then placed on a satin pillow, where it basked in the glow of our workshop’s sacred LED spotlight for exactly 3.7 seconds—just enough to ensure its brilliance radiates into your workshop.

Our world-renowned precision inspectors, each with decades of experience in woodworking sorcery, gathered around to give your product the ceremonial “nod of approval.” Then, with the utmost care, it was delicately wrapped and serenaded by an orchestra of tiny violins playing Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata.

Once sealed, our team held a raucous celebration, complete with cheers, confetti, and a synchronized “Microjig jig” (it’s our secret dance). Your package was then marched to the post office on a handcrafted golden cart, pulled by a procession of hummingbirds (we spare no expense).

:grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: