Large Scale Central

V&T Conference and the Sutro Tunnel

We just finished up the annual V&T Historical Society conference, and here’s a bit of a report.

The sessions were very interesting, with my favorite one being all about 19th century passenger car ceiling headliners, including how they’re being made for V&T coaches (all hand painted). All kinds of topics are covered, like using Google Earth to overlay V&T maps to see there the track as in relation to today’s structures / features; 3D printing a particular V&T loco; restoration of the C&C Dayton Depot (C&C began as a sister company of the V&T); legal issues faced by the V&T, delivered by a present-day lawyer (dressed in period clothing, he was a hoot); the myriad of forms used by the V&T… Every year is different.

The conference was well attended, around 210 people.

A number of these people are prior or current RR museum curators or directors, or have had some other professional connection with railroads, RR publications, current V&T operations, etc. So there’s a high level of knowledge in the room. But the bulk of us are just hobbyists / amateur historians.

I did a brief talk about the derrick car, and people seemed to like it.

Two museum curators (one retired, one current) were pointing to something odd on my derrick as I was walking by, and one guy said “Well, he was probably just printing three to save money, which is fine.” So I wanted to understand, of course. They explained that the Wells-French trucks were unique to the derrick, so the spare truck on the deck would have been a more common design, such as… I forget. They complimented the model though, said who cares, etc. But it was a big DUH moment for me, I can tell you!

That was during the “Modeler’s Workshop” on Thursday night. Sessions were Friday & Saturday, banquet Sat evening, and the big “field trip” was Sunday morning (today). It was to the site of the Sutro Tunnel, which was built to drain the Comstock mines. It came a little late in the game, and didn’t succeed in being useful as a way to get the ore out (conflicting financial interests with the mine & mill owners). But enormous amounts of capital was raised, and Sutro went to San Francisco where he built the enormous Sutro Baths and was involved in the cable car development.

The site has been on private property for a long time (though a hippy commune was there in the 70’s), so a lot of original structures and machinery are still around. There was a mill here, but after it burned in the 60’s its equipment was just lined up along the edge of the man-made plateau.

Here’s the remains of an electric speeder of some sort.

And an electric loco.

I counted 7 intact ore cars, but there were parts for more. These are big ones, mule-drawn before the electric loco was in play.

The portal is well preserved / maintained.

The tunnel itself isn’t passable. This cave-in happened in 2008 (if I recall correctly) and another just behind happened in 2017.

Originally, the tunnel went all the way west to Virginia City, where it branched north and south to intercept the major mines. Here’s some links.

A map of the tunnel and town of Sutro, as originally planned.

Section drawing of how the tunnel intercepted the major mines.

Some photos of the tunnel.

The conference was a lot of fun. Each year my friendships there grow, and I learn a lot. It’s cheap (prices / details at the society’s web site), and the hotel / casino is as well ($75 / night this year). So cheap that I’m staying a couple extra nights to do more sightseeing. So if you like the V&T, you might consider coming next year.

Cheers,

===>Cliffy

Cliff: I presume you’ve ridden on the V&T Railway [link] ???

I think your electric speeder was a mine mule before they got the electric loco. It looks low slung for a mine tunnel.

Thanks for being there for us.

Jim Rowson said:

Cliff: I presume you’ve ridden on the V&T Railway [link] ???

You bet, Jim! Let’s see, I’ve done the diesel train from VC to Gold Hill and back (that’s the initially recreated line, privately-owned by the Gray family), the steam train from Carson to VC and back (using the more recently created track that’s owned by the state), and the “wine train” down into Carson River canyon (ditto). All are different and a lot of fun!

I was just at the Eastgate depot (the Carson terminus) a half hour ago, getting a V&T ball cap for Lester, the man who let me in on his train-driving a few days ago in Portola. While there, I saw the good ol’ Robert C. Gray, a 2-8-0, pull in from Virginia.

Small world thing: Bob Gray was hands-down the guy responsible for bringing the V&T back to life. Bob died this year, in his 90’s. But at last night’s V&T banquet, his son gave the keynote speech about the amazing work his dad did.

John Caughey said:

I think your electric speeder was a mine mule before they got the electric loco. It looks low slung for a mine tunnel.

Thanks for being there for us.

Thanks John. Do you have a pic of what that pile might have looked like when it was running?

Cliff Jennings said:

John Caughey said:

I think your electric speeder was a mine mule before they got the electric loco. It looks low slung for a mine tunnel.

Thanks for being there for us.

Thanks John. Do you have a pic of what that pile might have looked like when it was running?

Image result for US early electric mine locos

Close enough?

On yours it looks like the collector pole goes in the pipe in the middle angling up to the left.

That’s perfect, thanks John, I knew you’d have it!

I’ll forward this to the group who’s doing the work of cleaning up the site and interpreting it to small (for now) groups.

One thing, the vehicles at Sutro have batteries, so wouldn’t need the power line. Otherwise, very similar.

Cliff Jennings said:

One thing, the vehicles at Sutro have batteries, so wouldn’t need the power line. Otherwise, very similar.

Not necessarily true, I imagine that was a messenger system and shop leads might not be wired. The juice was to get the ore out. Where the ore goes pays for the wire, batteries take over where necessary.

Some of the junk in your heap may have been added as trash hidden on the heap.

Perhaps in later years, but I’ve not seen wires / poles in any photos so far, in the tunnel or out in the property. And there are a lot of batteries.

Very little ore was taken out of this tunnel; its purpose ended up being just for drainage, even though it was originally “sold” as being the ore extraction solution.

yeah I was mis spoken, stoopid fingers again

Stupid nothing, you knew that thing was a “mule,” haha! Thanks for helping me out.

Someday I need to get over to that end of Nevada and see the V&T train running.

Hi Ray, and you bet, it’s certainly worth at least one visit! The V&T ride from Carson to Virginia City & back is great, and you have a couple hours to knock around VC in between. Here’s the specifics. The “wine train” down into Carson River canyon is nice too, just a lot shorter trip.

Then there’s the NV State RR Museum in Carson, they do steam ups some weekends during the main season.

Cliff

Carson City/Virginia City is a cool area for mining artifacts and the V&T RR. Wife and I rode that many times back when they first started running, then it was only down to the blocked tunnel and back. One day we bought an all day ticket and got four round trips riding in the cab because no one else signed up for a cab ride. Lots of fun. Somewhere in my train junk I have some pictures of the old stone V & T buildings before they tore them down in the name of progress.