Large Scale Central

USA SD70 & Phoenix Sound

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

Hello all,
This is my first post on the LSC forums, having stumbled upon it a week ago. Though many of you might know me on other forums. At any rate, the reason I’m here is I have a question.

I’m seriously considering purcahsing a USA SD70 in the UP C&NW colors and adding sound/DCC. But I’ve never owned either company’s product before. So buying the SD70 is no problem. But do I buy the BigSound PT5 or the 2K2? I don’t know which one. I will be running on DC first before DCC. Do I also need to buy a speaker? Do I also need to buy a motor decoder for the SD70? Do I also need to buy that interface dohicky for my PC? Are there other things that I haven’t thought of that I need?

Thanks,
Peter

#2

Peter -

Welcome aboard.

I don’t know much about the PT5, I have a 2K2 board and a 97 board from them. Phoenix is very good about responding to email, or better yet call them on the phone. They’ll be happy to advise.

If you want to modify any of the parameters or load sounds with a computer you will need their interface cable.

Jon

#3

If I’m not mistaken all the parameters can be set with his DCC hand held rather than using the computer interface. Only if he wishes to change the SD70 sound to something else will he need the computer interface. If I’m wrong, Dave or Tony will surely set me straight…:expressionless:

#4

As I understand it, the 2K2 is for DCC and the P5 is for radio control. Tony or TOC will know for sure.

#5

I should mention I don’t have DCC currently, but plan to get it eventually. I don’t really want to modify the sound initially. I think I’d be fine with the factory settings until such time as I got DCC. From the Phoenix website they say the 2K2 and the PT5 are kinda the same, yet not. That’s where I get lost.

Thanks for all the replies!

EDIT: Update, after reading a bit more on Phoenix’s website it appears I want the 2K2 sound board. So now the question shifts to what decoder I need to buy for the USA SD70.

#6

The 2K2 will work with DCC, Bat/RC if you decide to add it later.
The reason for the P-5 is it is ready for DCC and Batt/RC installs. RCS and others require the optional P5T board. Airwire Bat/DCC does not.
And yes, a speaker is included with the P5.
And you can also use a P5 with track power, before you install DCC, but you will not have bell or whistle contacts. A reed switch is included with two small magnets for “Chuff” in steamers.
So it’s your choice.
If you are going DCC later, buy the P5 now and save a few bucks.
Remember that a P5T board is needed for some DCC installations.

JB

#7

The Phoenix P2k2 will work with regular track powered DC, DCC and battery R/C.
The P5 will not work with regular track powered DC. It will work with DCC and battery R/C.

RCS Battery R/C will work just fine with the P5. A P5T is only needed if you wish to access more than one sound trigger.

An RCS with a P5 + P5T will provide 3 sound triggers and all the components simply plug together.
They will cost less than the AW set up and the P5 on its own.

Add a plug in RCS PLUS-3 for 3 more sound triggers.
The total will still be significantly less than an AW set up with the P5.

#8

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Yes it will, Tony.
I’ve done it.
You just don’t have any of the special effects.
Although I did it with steam sound. Got the chuff from two magnets on my “test” flat car.
Can’t say anything about a dismal–haven’t tested one yet. (Although I do have a P5 dismal board–might have to run that with track power to see what happens.)
jb

#9

OK. John.

How did you get the P5 to idle when there was no track voltage?

BTW. There is no difference between the P5 Steam and Diesel pcb. They are both the same.

#10

Alright, after a quick email to Phoenix I’ve got everything sorted out. USA Trains SD70, Phoenix Sound Board and NCE808 decoder. Phew! By the time you’re done the sound/DCC has cost more than the engine!

#11

Which might explain why I still run a lot of track power…:confused:

#12
TonyWalsham said:
OK. John.

How did you get the P5 to idle when there was no track voltage?

BTW. There is no difference between the P5 Steam and Diesel pcb. They are both the same.


I said it would work.
Not perfectly.
My last two LGB’s with factory sound didn’t idle either. (Because of the stupid MTS decoder)
The P5 will work with track power, but not with all the features.
If a guy wanted to save a little money he could run with moving sounds until he buys the DCC stuff.

Enough said about this, Tony.
Let’s move on.

TOG

#13
Peter Amling said:
Alright, after a quick email to Phoenix I've got everything sorted out. USA Trains SD70, Phoenix Sound Board and NCE808 decoder. Phew! By the time you're done the sound/DCC has cost more than the engine!
Oh Yes. Quite the norm. You can get 700 bucks in a 90 dollar big hauler easily! :) :)

TOG

#14

Sorry John.

You made a statement that is incorrect.

Quote:
. Yes it will, Tony. I've done it. You just don't have any of the special effects.
So let us make this clear.

Whilst the P5 will work with track power it would be a very disappointed purchaser, who, after taking your advice that the P5 would work with track power, hooked it up to said track power only to find the P5 would not idle when their was no track voltage.

That is because of what?

No back up battery.

Not working at all is a bit more than “just doesn’t have any of the special effects”. Dontcha think?

The P5 was designed to work with DCC and battery R/C. Not regular DC track power.

Please get your facts right. Then, by all means pontificate to your hearts content. :wink:

#15

Tony,
Condescending must be a trait of yours. A strong trait at that!

Maybe its the language barrier.

#16

John.
Please feel free to read my comments how you wish.
I only ever want to get the facts right so the consumer has correct information upon which to base their LS purchases.
If that is condescending, so be it.

#17

Uh, huh.

I’ve come to discover that Tony has a habit of not really reading. And the “facts” are whatever Tony says they are, no quarter given. It is either a 1 or a 0, on or off. That is probably why his stuff works so well, he is persnickety.

Not working in idle with the track power off to me is a “special effect.” As John said, “It works, just not well.”(paraphrased).

#18

Steve,

The Phoenix P5 does not have any sound at idle when running on regular DC.
Sure the sound would start at say 5-6 volts. Long after many locos had started to move.
Do you really think any LS customer for DC sound considers having a sound at idle is a “special effect”?

They would expect it as a given.
If it wasn’t a given, they wouldn’t buy it.

#19

DCC and battery.RC systems provide constant voltage.
The 2K2 works perfectly on DCC, DC and Battery/RC
The P5 works on DCC, and by adding the optional boards can do commanded sounds on battery/RC
The P5 will not work on Analog DC

The P5 and 2K2 will work perfectly on DCC, automatic sounds, standing sounds, and commanded sounds plus several extras like controlling the volume or muting from your remote.

The P5 will work on Battery/RC for all the basic automatic sounds and standing sounds. you will get the toot after a stop, brake squeal, and even coupler crash when switching.
The P5 can even provide some commanded sounds if you add the extra boards from RCS and Phoenix.

Use a 2K2 board for Analog DC. The 2k2 has several features to allow things like the grade crossing to be activated by dropping the speed slightly when running fast. It will provide standing sounds, the correct number of toots when starting or stopping, brake squeal, etc.

I run DCC on my layout. I now use the 2K2 exclusively locos where I want the Phoenix system. I foundit very annoying that the P5 does not work worth a hoot when I take a loco to a friends house that does not have DCC, In fact, the sounds that the P5 makes when starting up on DC are so wrong as to be embarrassing and are worse than no sounds at all. If you never slow the loco to below 35 scale miles per hour, the P5 is OK on DC, but otherwise turn it off. For me, it is worth the few extra bucks to have the loco work on both DCC and Analog DC.

Anyone who spends more than 200$ per loco for DCC and sound has not learned where to shop or what to buy.