I’m about to pull the trigger on a Hudson. I’ve lusted for one since they came out. To you fellows out there that already have one, how are they performing? Any mechanical, motor or tracking problems I should be aware of. My layout has 3-4 percent grades, maybe even a bit more on one segment. Will that be problematic? Thanks for your comments.
Just make sure you have a wide enough radius curve, I wouldn’t operate it on anything less then 10’ diameter.
Great piece, I will be looking at one in the next week or so when I make my yearly visit to Charles Ro!
Vincent
Waite for Springfield they might have some there (Cash works wonders)
Rich, go to youtube.com and search for USA Hudson. There’s a video that Jon De Keles made that shows one running, as well as describing some of the features.
If you get one, I hope you enjoy it. My friend got one and it is a very impressive locomotive, IMO.
Bill
Rich Niemeyer said:
I’m about to pull the trigger on a Hudson. I’ve lusted for one since they came out. To you fellows out there that already have one, how are they performing? Any mechanical, motor or tracking problems I should be aware of. My layout has 3-4 percent grades, maybe even a bit more on one segment. Will that be problematic? Thanks for your comments.
Most rod-driven locos like the Hudson will categorically NOT like much more than a 2% grade, especially if the grade is also on any kind of a curve.
Geared locos like the Shay, in particular, since they are not direct drive, don’t mind a bit of a grade, but then, the real versions were built with grades in mind.
As has been noted, you’ll need to have sweeping curves of at least ten feet diameter, twenty is a LOT better, for your Hudson, else it will look, uh, odd. Also, try and use a gentle transition from the tangent into a curve to help the loco lead in to it.
tac
OVGRS.org
All, thanks for your comments and advice. I have seen Jon’s video and was impressed. All of my curves are 10 & 20 diameters, no problem there. But not sure about my grades. My LGB Mikado and Sumpter Valley locos do fine, except if I load the Mikado with more than 4 Heavyweights. The Sumpter Valley pulls practicaly anything (freight-wise). Tac, good advice on doing gentle transitions. I can do that on all but one curve. Thanks again…still think I’m gonna do it…pull the trigger that is.
Well, since no owner answered your question, my conversations with owners indicate it is a great puller. The gearbox is not ball bearing, so make sure the shafts are well lubed as well as the gears themselves. Do regular maintenance on all moving parts like any steamer.
Greg
I’m always curious when people talk about the performance of large scale locomotives in terms of “rod” vs. “geared” locos, as to say there’s a categorical difference between the two. The reality is that any electrically-powered locomotive is a “geared” locomotive. A locomotive’s performance on grades is based almost entirely on the gear ratio that exists between the motor and the driven wheels. (To wit, the kerfuffle surrounding Bachmann’s K-27 gear ratio.) It has absolutely nothing to do with the prototype being modeled. I’ve run any number of locos up and down my dad’s 4%+ grades, and there’s no discernible pattern which would say models of “geared” locos categorically do better on grades than models of “rod” locos.
No doubt, there are models of “geared” locos which are absolute stump-pullers. Accucraft’s 3-truck Shay comes to mind. But then you’ve got models of “rod” locos which pull just as well and are equally adept at handing changes in grades. You really need to take each locomotive on its own merits when determining how it might perform on your own railroad.
Whether the USA Trains Hudson is geared for power or for speed, I can’t say. I’ve only seen them running on relatively flat railroads with wide radius curves–certainly not anything that would pose any kind of challenge. I will say there are ways to “tame a wild beast” should the grades prove to cause you to need to ride the throttle more than you’d prefer. Yes, they involve 3rd-party control electronics, but–frankly–with a locomotive that’s as good of a looker as the Hudson is, it’s hard to argue it’s not worth the extra attention to get it to behave like the thoroughbred it is.
Later,
K
Actually Kevin, there’s large differences between a steamer with all axles geared and the siderods for show (Aristo) and a steamer that has power applied to one axle and the rest of the drivers get power through the side rods.
On top of that, the question was specifically about the Hudson, which has unique qualities, heavier, different drive train, no ball bearings, etc.
The looks outside have nothing to do with the drive train, handling of curves etc. There’s some great looking locos that run like crap.
Greg
Sure there are differences between a loco which gets geared power to all axles vs. one that relies on siderods to transmit power. In my experience scratchbuilding and kitbashing locos using both forms of drives, I’d hesitate to call the differences “large,” but they do exist and each has its merits and weaknesses. My point takes issue with Tac’s statement that models of “geared” locos (Shays, Heislers, Climaxes) are categorically better at dealing with grades than models of “rod-driven” locos such as the Hudson. There’s no consistent evidence to support that. It’s all purely dependent on the gear ratio in the individual locomotive. Going back to the Bachmann K-27 example, change the “stock” gearbox with one from R&K, and it becomes a new locomotive. Rodney’s gearbox makes that loco an absolute stump-puller–far more than most models of “geared” locos.
Relative to the Hudson–as I wrote–I haven’t a clue whether it’s geared for speed or power. The tracks I’ve seen the Hudson run on didn’t slow my stock K-27, either, so it’s impossible for me to offer an opinion one way or the other just based on that. The Garden Railways review states a drawbar pull of 72 ounces, which is very healthy (to put it mildly). It also says the top speed at 24 volts is under the prototype’s top speed of 90 mph. That gives me some confidence to think it’s geared more on the “power” end of the spectrum rather than the “speed” end of things.
Would Rich’s 4% grades pose a problem? It depends on how you define “problem.” If you’re going to run the train around the railroad with your hands on the throttle as it goes, then in all likelihood, you’ll be in good shape. Tweak the sound system so that the chuffs respond to changes in throttle and load, and you’ll have a grand time attacking the grades and making the loco really bark as it does so. That’s “how we roll” on my dad’s railroad, and it’s not a problem. As an engineer, you’re expected to know where the grades are and keep your loco’s speed in check. It’s all part of the realism of operating.
On the other hand, if you’re looking for a “set it and forget it” kind of hands-off operation, my guess would be that 4% grades with a 10-car train in tow, you’re definitely going to have some speeding and slowing. The degree to which cannot be determined until the loco is on the railroad in question, but I don’t see speeds being consistent without some kind of electronic cruise control on the motor.
Later,
K
I DO have a clue about how the Hudson is geared, so I DO have an opinion.
I do understand the drivetrain and gearbox.
I do know how it runs on steep grades.
Greg
Kevin and Greg, Thank you for your comments and observations. After reading this thread, and after the snow melts, I plan to modify the singular 4% grade. I have room to do so, and it seems that flattening things some will benefit all my steamers. As you would expect, the diesels have no problem with the grade(s), but I enjoy running my steamers even more. As my knees complain much about crawling around on the ground now, I have permission from the CEO to begin construction of an elevated layout that will incorporate part of the present ground segment and other features in order not to lose them all. It’s digging the postholes for the uprights that I’m so excited about…
Still gotta have that Hudson.
Big motor + titchy drive wheels will always win out, where traction is concerned, over big motor + big drive wheels.
Add to that that even a basic two-truck diesel has two motors, and some have four - AND titchy wheels.
Any one of my Aristo SD-45s happily pulls 60 -80 cars, when we are able to find that many.
tac
OVGRS
Greg Elmassian said:
…I do know how it runs on steep grades…
Perhaps you would care to enlighten us? That–after all–is the crux of Rich’s post. Does it bog down to where you’re constantly having to ride the throttle to adjust for grades, or is it just a subtle change in speed that might otherwise go unnoticed? A locomotive that generates 4.5 pounds of drawbar pull has some serious guts to it, so I’d imagine it’s capable of doing quite nicely. I’m as curious as anyone, and I’m not the one getting the checkbook ready.
Rich, a little earth moving is always good for the soul. (The back, maybe not so much.) Good luck with the expansion, and let us know how the loco runs for you!
Later,
K
Rich
My Hudson is a good puller, I’ve pulled 22 +/- freight cars and a caboose , I think my track has some grade but not 4%. You’ll love it!
Thanks Sean. After this discussion, I’m confident I can adapt the layout some and have fun with the Hudson…after the snow is gone. All of you have a great Thanksgiving!