Large Scale Central

UK Trading Standards Authority-v-track price hi - sorry, rise

Track and Trestles
#1

Well, it had to happen, and I’m glad it wasn’t me it happened to.

A member of the UK Armed Forces, serving in the sandbox, came home on disembarkation leave and waltzed into his large-scale dealership to collect all the Aristo track he had been paying for on lay-away during the six months he was out of the country.

He walked in with a big smile on his face, and walked out two minutes later, leaving the dealer looking a mite peeved and the front door in ruins behind him.

Seems he had paid up for almost £1000-worth of track, only to be told on the point of collecting it that the price had gone up by almost 90%, and that is what he would have to pay to take it away.

Powerful words were spoken by the would-be LS enthusiast, among which were 'cheating b*stard, and ‘bloody racketeer’ - the mildest that were heard that can be reported on a family forum.

I am told that he then spent sometime talking to the officials of the regional Trading Standards Authority - an organisation that actually has real teeth and influence with the Chambers of Commerce.

Is he entitled to purchase the goods at the price he believed he was going to have to pay? Or is he compelled to pay the price demanded by the dealer in view of the price hi- rise?

Having effectively paid for the goods prior to the price-rise, but not collected them on account of being overseas fighting off the fuzzy-wuzzies, should he be entitled to remove the paid-for items from the store at the then-agreed price?

Watch this space for updates.

tac

#2

Well, my 2¢ worth would be he should have not only gotten the old price but the dealer should have given it to him at his cost at the old price for him having served his time in hell! Probably won’t happen but I wish him well and hope he comes out on the better end of the deal !

#3

Hello Terry,
If it was in writing he had a binding contract with the dealer. It is up to the dealer to honour that contract.

#4

It also depends on whether he was paid up BEFORE the price increase hit, if so, thats a “paid in full” order and is only awaiting pick up.

If the lay-away plan clearly shows the sale at a certain price, the dealer shouldnt be able to suddenly up that price if he had previously agreed to lower price. Thats a breech of agreement. However since I know the Golden Rule applies, namely whoever has the gold, makes the rules, I suspect our poor fellow will get screwed over…I hope the board sees how F’d up this is. To not honor a sale on a lay-away plan is truely bad business. Word gets out and no one will trust their word.

Even if he wasnt paid up at the time of the increase and the agreement had a provision for any unforseen price increases prior to pick up, then the dealer should have notified him immediatly, told him the full situation and given him the option for a full refund if he chose not to continue. To pull the kind of BS they did when the guy came into pick up his agreed upon and payed up order, is truely chicken-s**t behavior of the highest level.

#5
Victor Smith said:
It also depends on whether he was paid up BEFORE the price increase hit, if so, thats a "paid in full" order and is only awaiting pick up.
Paid-up in full a couple of months ago, it seems.

If this guy goes public, as I believe he will, the store dealer might as well shut up the store right now and save the bailiffs the trouble.

Being the only one around does not mean you can screw the paying population…

tac

#6
Terry said:
Being the only one around does not mean you can screw the paying population...
I think this is a good argument for the mail order houses. Dealers like him are suddenly NOT the only game in town. It changes things to "be competitive" and "be honest" or get out of the kitchen.

In every situation that I know of in the US, the price point for a lay-a-way purchase is at the time of lay-a-way, not the time of pick up. Personally I hope your friend puts that dealer out of his misery. They hobbiest doesn’t need that kind of dealer.

#7
Warren Mumpower said:
Terry said:
Being the only one around does not mean you can screw the paying population...
I think this is a good argument for the mail order houses. Dealers like him are suddenly NOT the only game in town. It changes things to "be competitive" and "be honest" or get out of the kitchen.

In every situation that I know of in the US, the price point for a lay-a-way purchase is at the time of lay-a-way, not the time of pick up. Personally I hope your friend puts that dealer out of his misery. They hobbiest doesn’t need that kind of dealer.


100% agree, Warren. Sadly we are pretty short of dealers here in UK - only about 20 in total. He is not my friend, BTW, but a contact via another member of a UK-based forum.

tac

#8

Do not think it is something for Trading Standards, probably Small Claims Court.

He has a contract, does not need to be in writing, but it sounds like he has enough supporting evidence.

Should not be too much trouble getting a favourable result, I would have thought the Tabloids might like the story, right time of year.

#9

Tommy

I went into a public-‘ouse to get a pint o’beer,
The publican ‘e up an’ sez, “We serve no red-coats here.”
The girls be’ind the bar they laughed an’ giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an’ to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's ``Thank you, Mister Atkins,'' when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's ``Thank you, Mr. Atkins,'' when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn’t none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-‘alls,
But when it comes to fightin’, Lord! they’ll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap;
An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy how's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren’t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An’ if sometimes our conduck isn’t all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, an’ fires an’ all:
We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

Rudyard Kipling

#10

Very true.

Nothing has changed since that was writted.

tac

#11

Spot on, Stevo!

Jack, my godfather, fought across Europe with Patton’s signal corps, then got posted to Japan. When he and several thousand other blokes got home on a transport at the end of '45, it was pouring down in NYC. Believe it or not, there were people at the pier exit whose job it was to collect the returning servicemen’s government-issue raincoats.

After Jack told me this story, he showed me his raincoat. The collectors decided, in the interest of self-preservation, that telling several thousand veterans who had just spent (in Jack’s case, anyway) over three years putting their lives on the line for their country to go out in the rain without a raincoat was not a wise thing to do.

#12

While everyone owes the deepest of respect and admiration for any of our fine brothers, fathers, sisters and mothers that may be fighting overseas right now, the behaviour of this retailer would not be in better standing if the affronted customer were not a member of the military.

I am not sure as to how layaway works, but I had always thought that the materials were pulled from the shelves, and a balance was determined for payoff and subsequent delivery of parts. I do not uderstand how the agreed value could increase due to poor luck of the stockist. The materials purchased were at the previous price level, and any modification of the price should only be materialized on future purchases.

#13

We have a situation whereby, if an item is for sale and the dealer is unable to supply at the ‘quoted’ price, then the dealer will inform the purchaser that the item does not qualify for a ‘rain check’, i.e., not available at the currently listed price.

In the situation of a ‘layby’, then the dealer enters a contract to supply the buyer at a quoted sale price. The goods are then removed from sale and stored until purchase price is paid in full. There are strict guidelines as to the time limit imposed for the buyer to complete the sale. There are also time limits as to how long the dealler is legally required to hold goods for sale, even if the goods have been paid in full (usually three months). The buyer in this case had paid for the goods long before attempting to pick them up. I believe that the dealer was running short on stock and utilised the items paid for by the buyer. In the interim the price doubled and the dealer was left out of pocket due his inability to ensure adequate stock on hand.

Regardless of whether the buyer was in the armed services or not, the onus is on the dealer to supply at the quoted layby price. A layby is a legal document to supply goods at a quoted price. It also sets out the terms and conditions of the sale. The buyer needs to be assured that he has met these conditions of sale, particularly the time limit imposed on layby sales.

#14

Hey, folks, the ‘Armed Services’ only got a mention becuase the post was on an Army-related site, no other reason.

In law he is treated just the same way as any other citizen/subject.

I only mentioned that as a reason for the lay-away over a six-month period - this method of purchasing is pretty rare here in UK.

The goods were paid-for in full a couple of months past, hence the understandable ire of the guy trying to take them away.

So far we have heard no more…

tac

#15

Terry please PM me the company concerned, so that I can make sure that I don’t put any trade his way.
Rod F.
England

#16

Hi Tac,
Mention this on GSM, even if only the county the retailer is in would be of use.

#17

I know nothing of UK trade laws… but in another life when I managed retail stores, layaway sales were a very clear cut case of a credit sale with the merchandise acting as collateral. The sale was complete and recored in full at the time of the initial order, then the merchandise was laid-away in storage awaiting payment in full. Once the original price was fully paid, the customer could leave with his merchandise. We used the layaway plan all the time to hold sale pricing into the future and as a hedge against price increases.

If he had made the deal in the US it would be clear that he was due the track once the original price was paid in full.

I hope things work out for this chap - hate to see anyone screwed, especially someone who has laid his life on the line.

JR