Large Scale Central

Ugh

This past weekend I dove into the RR to try and get it cleaned up from the winter. I had a couple pieces of broken track, and the bridge that collapsed. Pulled a lot of weeds, while some batteries were charging. Tried to run a train around, but the track is un-level in a LOT of places. Frost heaves have upset the spline roadbed and pushed a lot of the posts around, so things are tilted and twisted. I couldnt get a train to run more than about 10 feet without derailing, or plain falling off the track. Last derailment broke something in the loco; batteries are plugged in, but no lights or movement. Blah.

After doing all the spline roadbed last year, and hoping I wouldn’t have to do this much maintenance every year, I am very discouraged.

Bob. Bob, Bob…
Nothing works as well as floating in ballast.
Everyone of my Buds around here have used all kinds of different track supports, and all are now afloat.
Some used trex, some wood, all gone now!
After record snowfalls this last winter, all I did was level a few spots with new ballast and ran trains.

I tried to warn you…:slight_smile: :slight_smile:

BTW, your first train in almost July? Shame…

I did floating in ballast for years, and it never worked here for me. Always washed out and heaved.

Guess your next step is concrete track bed!!! Ugh is right The Regal

I feel your pain Bob. Our spring monsoon season has kept me from running the main layout. My railfanning patio has had mud cleaned off of it 5 times. We finally had a rain break this past two weeks and I’m sticking in a drywell to help for next time around.
You might think about redigging the holes for your support posts and then refilling them with gravel only.

-Brian

Bob McCown said:
I did floating in ballast for years, and it never worked here for me. Always washed out and heaved.
Then I guess I can't help. :( I didn't think your winters were any worse than mine.

You might need a complete re-do, from the ground or sub ground up.

That certainly must be discouraging. I hope you can find a solution.

My yard is made up of mostly heavy glacial till. Depending on where in the yard I dig, If I dig down below the topsoil, I hit either 1) unknown number of feet of clay (at least 4, Ive gone that deep and keep finding it) or 2) rocks and sand ranging from marble size to VW sized. Add to that a frost depth of 4-5 feet, not much is stable during the winter freeze. Im pondering a modified-IPPW type layout, not up on benchwork fully, but solid, stable bench-work of about a foot or so high.

Sorry to hear of your track woes Bob. I hate to just need to repair an occasional structure roof or something so I can only imagine the frustration of overhauling everything.

Perhaps you should consider an installation such as Fred uses up north. He seems to have a winning combination for the cold eastern climes. While my benchwork style is a bit different than Fred’s I can honestly say elevating the RR has increased enjoyment many times over and greatly reduced track maintenance.

Good luck on your repairs and don’t lose heart. We all need you and your ideas not to mention the top cailber LSC site. Might be a good time to say thanks to you as well.

I’ll bet it’s that clay that is the problem. My layout has been ignored for two years and I’ll have some releveling to do but that track has just been floating with no problem. I’m sure glad I just have desert sand and a little rock!

Here in beautiful downtown Deer Park, we don’t have gully whompers that flush out all of the ballast. My soil is sandy, as far as I have been able to dig, and rarely do I find any rocks bigger than 1/2 inch in it. I’ve never checked the frost depth, but our winters are fairly mild, even here at 2500 feet ASL.

After the winters, all I’ve had to do is a small amount of reballasting and leveling. I have found that as time goes on and the ballast solidifies, that I have to do less each spring.

Most of my track floats, but I am copying Fr. Fred’s and Richard’s ideas of elevating the railroad at the various yards, because my knees are starting to complain. Fortunately, the ground falls away at the yards, so I don’t have to worry about a helix or really steep grades.

I tried the ladder method, but found that it was more work than benefit.

I guess I’m lucky.

Interesting. My maintenance here in Northern Virginia has decreased considerably from when I had originally tried floating sectional track and found out it moved too often and too much. I was continually leveling it from side to side. Now that I’ve got everything on ladder, there’s not much to do when the season starts. Heck, even when John Neal stopped by in January I didn’t have any problems running a train. The track no longer moves when a hose is dragged over it, or the squirrels use if for a race track.

While I like to operate on Fred’s IPP&W, that type of layout would never work in my yard from an aesthetic point of view. The same with Richard’s elevated layout; it fits HIS yard perfectly, but not mine. :wink:

I wonder if you would need to elevate PT lumber very much at all? It would seem like you could keep it at the same level as the current track.

I guess there’s no universal solution.

Sorry to hear your having problems, Bob.
It is frustrating when you can’t run a train.
One of these days I’d like to build an elevated RR like TOC.

My Winters are mild. Floating the track in ballast works pretty well for me.
I have clay soil, with rocks, but have installed drainage ditches to keep the water flows away from the track.
I use 1/4 inch gravel instead of crusher fines. Once I cured the drainage problems, the ballast pretty well stays put.
Ralph

Ugh is right! I’m sorry to hear this especially since I’m in the process of installing my first sections of ladder roadbed using the same method. I hope Doug is right and the clay is the issue.

The soil here is nice even though I’m close to you, geographically speaking. We have the big glacial boulders and rocks of every size, but I believe the land my lot is on was farmland prior to the 1920’s. All of the rocks within the first few feet of soil were removed by the farmers and piled up as walls. I’m near the top of a little knoll and there is no clay her at all. I don’t have much problem with frost heave on my ballasted portions.

ITs the clay. Once it has that much water it will move everthing around as it freezes and such.
Sorry about all the troubles Bob. hang in there.

Bob,

Never give up as I have changed locations and now starting over again.

Well, here in Lost Wages one needs dynamite to move the cement like ground. Looks like making a table top layout won’t be too much of a problem by just making a good base on top of the ground. Most build their layouts on or near the ground but as an old fardt, the joints don’t cater to pain playing on the ground.

The table top layout I had in Oregon kept leaning due to the softening of the ground with the excess rain fall.

Okay now get to it—

Cheers, TOF in Lost Wages

Jon Radder said:
Ugh is right! I'm sorry to hear this especially since I'm in the process of installing my first sections of ladder roadbed using the same method. I hope Doug is right and the clay is the issue.

The soil here is nice even though I’m close to you, geographically speaking. We have the big glacial boulders and rocks of every size, but I believe the land my lot is on was farmland prior to the 1920’s. All of the rocks within the first few feet of soil were removed by the farmers and piled up as walls. I’m near the top of a little knoll and there is no clay her at all. I don’t have much problem with frost heave on my ballasted portions.


My property is the same. It was once farmland. If I dig more then 6 inches it is nothing but rock. What saves me is not having the clay. Floating the track in balast works great for me. We get cold winters with 60+ inches of snow a winter that stays on the ground for a good 2-3 months.

Bob,

You said - “I’m pondering a modified-IPPW type layout, not up on benchwork fully, but solid, stable bench-work of about a foot or so high.”

When you stated your problem, I immediately thought of the same thing. Do you remember how Fred has those 2 foot by 2 foot patio squares that the legs sit on? I feel the key is the shear square foot age of the foot is what keeps things level. It all goes up and it all goes down.

Richard’s layout does almost the same thing, but does it by the rigidness of the benchwork that may allow any one leg to be lifted clear of the ground as the rest holds the massive benchwork level. So what if you don’t do the massive tear out and start over or chuck the whole routine thing, but repair where it needs to be repaired with a different solution? What if you took an area that was raised on your uprights and added another set of splines down next to the ground? If it is next to the ground bring it up 6 inches and put another set of splines. This would make the whole area from one upright to the next a solid box frame. Think of a trestle and even if you have to put angles, you are improving not just abondoning the idea. Do you have any areas that are not impacted? I would think, don’t touch except for the height transition to the new areas.

You know in the entire history of the Uintah Railroad, they had to have a steam shovel stationed at one area of the railroad for a mud slide, because it had to be cleared every year and sometimes many times a year.

This local knowledge of how to build is really the only solution and 50 yards or 50 miles can change everything. Good Luck, enjoy the challenge and try not to look at it with just frustration.

And I thought the “Ugh” was because we got to rowdy again. :wink:

I just did a test section of track outside. For most of what I have, if I put the spline roadbed into 2x6 PT (and drill it in so its firm) and then attach the 2x6 to a 2x12, I get a nice stable roadbed that I can bury, and it still looks good.

Time to head to Home Despot tomorrow, I guess!

Honestly …this is my first outside RR and from information of trial and error posted on this site I have learned well!
Personally I like the ladder system as instead of leveling a bed of crusher fines(which I have never done) You can level large sections by just shifting and leveling the ladder in that bed of crusher fines. Does that make sense?
Fred’s system works awesome as well IMO.
This comes to mind
http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=11409

http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=11321&p=2
scroll to bottom

Honestly I just love playin’ with trains outside as it has some hellish challenges …it’s just too cool!!!
Next year will be my 10th anniversary with LS trains so I say thanks for hosting a site as such Bob.
:slight_smile: