Large Scale Central

Two Cylinder Shay

This is my first post on Live Steam. I will soon be the proud owner of the above mentioned loco. It will be my first venture into Live Steam. I will appreciate any advice you veterans can offer. Thank You Nick Jr

In my experience, which is very limited, BTW, getting together with a group of live steamers is the best way to go. That is if you have a group that’s nearby. That way if any problems occur, one of them more than likely has had the same problem and can recommend a fix. And while they all may have differing opinions on which is the right way to do things, they sure as hell won’t recommend a wrong way to do it…:wink:

Nick Peluso Jr said:
This is my first post on Live Steam. I will soon be the proud owner of the above mentioned loco. It will be my first venture into Live Steam. I will appreciate any advice you veterans can offer. Thank You Nick Jr
Remember GOW -

Gas - [butane NOT propane]

Oil - [Proper steam oil - there is NO substitute]

Water - [Distilled NOT De-ionised]

Pay attention to the water level glass - it is very important! Best to fit a Goodall valve pretty soon - this will enable you to top up the boiler water while in steam, else you have to shut down and start over.

But as was mentioned, joining a bunch of like-minded folks is the best idea - you are welcome to join us, but we live a fair step away… : (

Lots of luck - it’s a little gem to run…

tac

Disclaimer - I know absolutely nothing about live steam - so I have no business posting in this thread.

Terry - I’m curious about why Live Steamers use Butane. I just read in my RV handbook that Propane will maintain as a gas under low pressure down to quite low temperatures while Butane does not gas off at temperatures normally experienced during North American winters. That’s why Propane is used for RV furnaces and home gas grills.

Does this physical property of Butane make it difficult to get a steamer fired up in the winter ?

JR

Nick,

I really can’t qualify myself as much of a “Live Steamer”, but I purchased the Accucraft 2 Cylinder Shay, 2 years ago and find it an absolute joy to run. It works it’s little cyclinders and really doesn’t travel very fast, so it is easy to control and perform switching manuevers or pulling a drag of cars. It will handle track that rod engines would have trouble with and fits in easily with all equipment. There are lots of people that will help you get going as they did for me. You will get lots of opinions and advice and from this you can find what works for you. I don’t feel you will be dissapointed.

Jon Radder said:
Disclaimer - I know absolutely nothing about live steam - so I have no business posting in this thread. Terry - I'm curious about why Live Steamers use Butane. I just read in my RV handbook that Propane will maintain as a gas under low pressure down to quite low temperatures while Butane does not gas off at temperatures normally experienced during North American winters. That's why Propane is used for RV furnaces and home gas grills. Does this physical property of Butane make it difficult to get a steamer fired up in the winter ? JR
Butane is used because

a. it was more initially more easily obtainable in small amounts [gas-lighter refill cans] than propane here in UK where gas-firing of little locomotives started in the early 1870’s…

b. it can be stored at a lower pressure than propane at ambient temperature - if you look up the Bray tables for pressure v temperature rise you will see that propane at 30degrees C is at almost three times the pressure of butane.

c. although Accucraft state categorically that you MUST run their locomotives on butane, most actually run on a 70/30 mix.

d. butane storage tanks need to be kept warm in colder weather to permit gas flow. For this reason the gas tank is either placed closely to the backhead of the boiler, or actually part-immersed in a warm water tank.

e. the colder the external temperature, the more difficult it is to steam a butane-fired loco. We stop here in UK at around 0C/32F, even with a mix. The Youtube clip of my NG/G16 Garratt on its inaugural run was carried out at 2C, BTW.

As ever, your results may differ, so don’t shoot me.

tac

Thank you everyone for your encouraging words, and Terry the detailed explaination of the gas. It is as you read my mind with the question as WHY butane and not propane. Nick Jr

Evenin’, Nick - Between the answers you have here, and those on mylargescale.com, you have probably gotten the best of both worlds. Dougald and I have both converted our three-cylinder Shays to run extra-large on-board gas tanks and David Bailey specialty fine-feed lubricators - giving us about 80-90 minutes running time - with water fill-ups of course, courtesy of the Goodall valve.

If you would like to see my Shay in action, give me a call on my pm and I’ll happily send you a few short movie clips.

Meanwhile, if you look on Youtube, you’ ll find that that excellent fellow, Tom LaPointe, has made an excellent series showing how to fire up, run and care for a live-steam Shay.

Luck!

tac

Terry, I don’t want to sound stupid, but what is ‘pm’ that you want me to call you on??? Nick Jr

PM=private message. Click his “email” in the left hand column.

Dear Mr Jr [that’s a strange name you have there, BTW] - a few short movies are heading your way…sorry for the delay, but both daughter and her hubby bin having a bad time with fits in the last couple of days, and that sort of grabs your attention away from trains.

tac

‘Do your utmost, and hope for forgiveness in the end’

St Auspicious of Gleep - 881-943.

Terry, I sign everything Nick Jr. almost like my first day with a new pair of hands, sorry if I deleted some characters.
The movies were great and I thank you for taking the time to send them. I still don’t have the locomotive in hand, but I have been invited to a steam up this sunday and am anxious to attend, meet new people and learn how to operate these locomotives. Again thank you for your taking the time to send the videos, I enjoyed them very much.
Nick Jr.

…Around here in the Northern climes; the guys use a Propane/Butane mix, that helps avoid the cold temperature problem with straight Butane.
It is readily available at “Camping/outdoor” stores as a fuel for camp stoves and lanterns.
The container it comes in, has the same “Spout” that the normally used Butane ones have.

Make sure you use DISTILLED WATER…it saves scale build up in your boiler, and is available at very little expence from most “Drug Stores” or pharmacies.

After buying a fine live steam model at the prices they go for; it is a crime to try to penny pinch on the proper water you use in it’s boiler.

Yes; also purchase the proper “Steam Oil”, and don’t use substitutes.

You also can mount Kadee couplers on those Shays, which makes them look good and able to pull good looking trains. It does take a bit of work, but is worth the effort.

Not only Kadees…but those dreaded Accucraft couplers…

It’s a great running locomotive. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it!

Bruce, thank you for the advice, pics and encouragement. Nick Jr
And a beautiful lay out I may add.

Nick if you can find in your area go with the 30/70 mix which I buy at Walmart and made by coleman. Lot cheaper than buying Butane. Later RJD

RJ, thank you, I am a stones throw from WalMart. Does it come in large cans??? Nick Jr