Large Scale Central

Tsunami for LS, part deux

Electronics Power and Sound
#1

SoundTraxx News

With the impending release of the Bachmann Large-Scale C-19, we now offer a plug-in Tsunami sound decoder for this model. Designated as the TSU-BA4000, this decoder is loaded with the C-Class sound files and easily plugs into the existing circuit board. This dual mode decoder will be available for shipping soon, but orders can be placed now. At an MSRP of $139.95, this is not only a great option for the Bachmann C-19, but it is economical as well.

826610 TSU-BA4000 for Bachmann Large Scale C-19 MSRP $139.95

I’ve gotta call and see what the stall current is. The new catalog I got two weeks ago as one amp max stall current listed in the entire catalog.

#2

Got the data this morning. This is a 4 amp unit. It is basically what we had with the 3-truck Shay, but on an Ames Super Socket configuration, loaded with C-19 ONLY sound (questions asked indicate you cannot reload a Tsunami). Available ONLY from Soundtraxx dealers.
Personal comment:
Knowing what I do, and what I have picked up in many conversations, with up to three pinout configurations from the Bachmann Technical Advisor (K style with motors reversed of Aristo, next one with motors same as Aristo, and I have bneen told other changes in the following units), plus Aristo, plus Aristo variations, I would be reluctant to plug this $140 unit into anything else.
Standards, as we are now painfully aware, are meant to be ignored.

#3

As one who likes sound, but not a big enough fan to pay the high price for some systems, this one might appeal to me.

Question; If I use the “Revo” system can I plug this board and the “Revo” into the same socket? Anyone know?

#4

Two devices into one socket does not equate.

#5
TonyWalsham said:
Two devices into one socket does not equate.
In my business we have stacking connectors, board to board, which is why I asked. It is indeed common to stack boards into one single socket. Wish-full thinking on my part.

So if I understand correctly you can have sound (Plug and Play) or you can have control (Plug and Play) but you cannot have both.

I guess I shall once again get back in line and wait for the “Revo” with soumd.

#6

Unless your board manufacturer has sockets on top of his board to accomodate another level of Chinese electronics.

#7

Quote…I guess I shall once again get back in line and wait for the “Revo” with sound… Good luck with that one. :slight_smile:

(http://freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/nicholas_savatgy/_forumfiles/96_lg_clr.gif)

#8

Revulsion does not. QN2 does not. I found a QSI sound unit for Aristo that has one level of sockets on one end.
The old K-27 boards (of which I have a box full) had marked solder pads along the side (and wonder of wonders, the pad holes would accept screw terminals) that are the “other end” of the socket, and well marked, so you can connect sound systems to the board with a control unit plugged in. And not much chance of full power being applied to speaker terminals, either.
Be very careful what you ask for…and especially careful of what you think someone is telling you…because, right now, there are so many variations, the “other end” can be anything. Which, I am guessing, is why the QN2 from Soundtraxx is specific to the C-19.

Just how well is plug-and-pray going to play out in the trenches, when you have to buy a specific unit for your application, anyway?
Why have sockets?
Why have folks trying to re-assign pins?

#9

The fundamental problem here is that the Quasinami Version 2 is a sound AND motor decoder… it want to connect to and drive the motor.

So does the Revulsion…

If you are using the Revul… sorry, Revolshun, I mean Revolution, then you are stuck with it, and the best path is an inexpensive sound card… Using what amounts to a complete motor controller and sound decoder system that already has remote control (either DCC or Airwire) is fighting the basic design of the electronics.

Also, the sophisticated sound units (Tsunami, QSI, Zimo, ESU, Masssoth) want to get feedback from the motor in order to make the sound more realistic, so you need the connection there.

Greg

#10

So far my “Plug and Play” has been limited to to installing a Revo unit in a K-27 and a 2-6-6-2. Both were a snap. I was indeed hoping to use this C-19 card in a different application but think I will hold off. Future battery conversions will likely be a trailing car anyway in which case there is no P&P.

Of course as soon as I raise the funds for the C-19 I may look into this Tsunami card with a trailing batt car.

#11

The QN2 is like the QSI in that it is a DCC sound decoder and DCC decoders do not like to be powered by PWM output ESC’s.
So, if you use the Tsunami Qn2 in the C-19 and then power the whole shebang with a Revolution in a trail car without filtering on the output of the Revolution, you are asking for touble.
By the time you add the extra bits needed for a QSI or QN2 to work with the Revolution, it will be simpler to install and use Phoenix sound. Probably about the same total cost too.

#12

Let me try to clear up some confusions.

Several years back a proposal was put forward for a common socket. Bachmann now has 5 locomotives that use that socket proposal. The pin layout for all 5 locomotives is the same. Future Bachmann Sprestrum locomotives are expected to use the same pin layout.

The electronics in the locomotives has evolved as improvements have been made to address end user requests.

For example, the most notable change was that the chuff pin function was changed for a positive activation (K27) to a ground activation (all other locomotives). This change was to allow a much broader set of sound products to be more easily be installed.

Mark has asked about the Revolution product.

This is an excellent product that plugs into the socket. However it will not take full advantage of the sockets capabilities and currently does not offer a sound option.

The protocol used to control the revolution is unique to the revolution so stacking is only possible with other products that are either controlled by the revolution or can understand the revolution protocol. Currently I am aware of no other products that are built to understand this protocol.

You can however install a sound system that has external triggers which the revolution can activate and Aristocraft has anounced a native sound option. It is unknown if this new board will use the same pins as Bachmann does for the speaker connection.

The revolution can also not control all the locomotive functions without soldering wires. The reason is that Aristocraft has chosen to not support at this time any function on the second row of pins called J2. Functions such as the cab light, firebox flicker and the classification lights are all on J2 so these functions can be turned on and off manually via switches on the locomotive but not via a a revolution handheld.

Soundtraxx has anounced a product for the C-19. This product will have a whistle, bell and chuff that is prototypical correct for a C-19. This same board could easily be plugged into a Forney or Climax and function properly. However the whistle will be a hooter and not a specific whistle such a locomotive might have had.

Without testing I am unsure if the Soundtraxx product would work in a 2-6-6-2 because of the amp draw and lack of fan. Likewise because of the different type of chuff trigger, I am uncertain whether it would work in a K27 without adding the inversion transistor to the chuff circuit.

Hope that helps.

Stan

#13
Stan Ames said:
Let me try to clear up some confusions.

Hope that helps.

Stan


Nope

#14

I will say this. I now have a better understanding about the words “listen” and “help”.
Remember when folks were complaining about the transistors (little surface mount, ROHS soldered on) in the firebox and smokebox boards of the K that had failed? Certain things were on all the time or off all the time? We could wire around those. Make it work in the field. And in the process we discovered what happens to tracks done with ROHS solder when you try to remove a component for repair.
Nice job on the Meyer. You put all those on the socket board, underneath the dummy board. I suppose we could run jumper wires under the main board and bypass failed components, right?
Instead of a simple socket on a board, you now have all the electronics on it too.
I really like that. I really do.
It makes it far, far easier to pull all this stuff out in one board instead of 3 or 4.
At least on the K all the auxilliary function pinouts were to a set of pads along the side, clearly marked, with none of those “free” electronics bits in between.
Amazing.
Just amazing.

I’ll have to point it all out next ops session.

#15
Stan Ames said:
SNIP ......... I am uncertain whether it would work in a K27 without adding the inversion transistor to the chuff circuit.

Hope that helps.

Stan


When applying the inversion transistor to the K-27 socket pcb to make the K-27 chuff timer usable for most sound systems, you must also add a very small .1 mfd monolith capacitor.
Then the K-27 chuff timer will work as reliably as the rest of the K-27 electronics. Which in my case has been dozens of conversions without ever gutting the stock electronics or having subsequent failures of the stock components.
I haven’t done a Forney or C-19 as yet, but I have never had any chuff trigger problems with the other 2-6-6-2T and Climax socket equipped locos I have converted to battery R/C.

Maybe I have just been lucky. :wink:

Edit note.
Changed wording to make it clear that on models subsequent to the K-27 the chuff timers work reliably without any mods.

#16

I like Bachmann’s new socket. It sure is a lot easier to install radio control and sound that gutting a locomotive and completely rewiring it. That’s definitely old school. But if you can convince people it’s hard so you dupe them into paying hundreds of dollars to have you do it, why not! There’s sucker born every minute.

#17

Now now Paul. :wink:

#18
Paul Norton said:
I like Bachmann's new socket...
As do I. And now that I see more and more suppliers making sound and control modules specifically for it I like it even better.

The C-19 might be a loco to “play” with the socket and try some ‘new to me’ electronics…Like the Tsunami or a controller like that offered by Mr. Walsham.

1st, need a C-19!

#19

Deep breath everybody!

#20

I’m just going to say I hope this does well for them, and they eventually bring their other sounds to market as well. It would be good to have an inexpensive alternative to QSI, which is now selling for around $200 with all their latest improvements. There’s no reason you couldn’t plug this into an adapter board like you do the QSI or Revolution for use in non-socket locos. I think back to the Sierra/Phoenix rivalry 15 year ago. Phoenix had better sound reproduction and more features, but you paid for it. For those wanting “good enough” at a fair price, the Sierra was perfect. I think a large-scale Tsunami has a similar place in the market.

Later,

K