Large Scale Central

Triple O -- Bachmann 10-Wheeler Salvage Campaign

Thanks everyone for the tips regarding the steam dome! I am curious to see what Kid-zilla uncovers here around home before we look for a commercial or “bits box” solution!

I have one more question about powering the current chassis, though. I am assuming all the red wires that run from the brass busses to one of the motor tabs are one half of the DC circuit and that the black wires from the plungers which run to the other motor tab are the other half of the circuit. Can we just cut, route, and solder wires such that black wires run from one brass bus to on motor pole and red wires run from the other bus to the other motor pole?

The whole system seems overcomplicated.

Eric

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i think, yes IF…
… you can veryfy, that all wires of one of the colors ultimately connect to one of the rails, while those of the other color connect to the other rail.

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Eric, I have never heard of or seen a 4-6-0 with two different pickup systems. The really old ones had the plungers on both sides, and the later ones had the brass strips resting on the brass bearings.

I went back and looked at your photos. In this photo, I can see the plungers and the plunger mounts inside the frame. In a previous photo I can see the same plungers at the rear of the frame. They are wired to the motor.

Those brass strips are the chuff sound triggers, and are wired to the back plug to the tender sound system. Are these the ‘brass busses’ you mention? If so, they have nothing to do with track pickups.

Pete, yes, they are. I’ll open Emmett up again to verify, of course. At this point, I am going to recommend to my sidekick that we mount Emmett on a less vintage chassis so that we can clear the work space and get his circus train working. I also think it will be easier to putter with this thing with the boiler and cab removed.

Thanks!
Eric

Just allow him to think outside the box and he will come up with a solution.

Maybe this?

Rivet domes

4-20 mm from aliexpress.

@Rooster and Bill ( @Hines ),

I will have him review this thread - at his request - tomorrow!

Eric

Eric, and Son;
Do you need a sand, or steam dome, or both…I have them…what other parts are you in need of…

Fred

Fred,

Thanks for the offer. I am curious to see what solution he engineers first. He still has to disassemble the derelict and get it properly cleaned, so there is no rush. Today, he started pulling things apart and discovered the “joy” of stuck and stripped screws! He was hard at work this evening trying to file a slot for a bigger screwdriver.

He had begun removing detail parts (such as are left) earlier today. Learning from my mistakes, he is properly bagging and labeling parts, and he wanted to show that off!

Updates to follow!

Eric

Update:

This should be the last update on Emmett. Kid-zilla and I were “all in” on Sunday to get his circus engine running.

First, we gathered the two derelicts, ex-Other Emmett and ex-North Star (not be confused with our North Star of recurring LSC fame, who is very much in service!) to have them on hand as parts donors. ex-North Star, as described above, is already slated for repair; ex-Other Emmett, which is actually in better shape, will follow AFTER we figure out what we are doing!

Then, we removed Emmett’s boiler and cab from the chassis. We discovered that the after drivers had plungers, too, which were frozen solid and had cracked housings.

This consigned it to the parts bin, but not before we removed the motor and gear block and carefully labeled the wires.

Interestingly, the lower plate of the chassis had the castings to receive those brass busses that transfer power on later models, suggesting that this was a bit of a “transition” model with parts from multiple generations. Neat. Not helpful, but neat.

Both derelicts had equally stuck plungers, so we set them aside. We had originally planed to simply mount Emmett’s wheelset into a donor chassis, but we discovered that a.) “he” had a totally different gear box, and b.) “his” wheels lacked the brass collars that take power from the wheel and transfer it to the busses.

Schimpf! :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: That meant we were going to have to try to move wheels and axels and things, but, lo! I remembered that @PeterT had show the path to us before, so I referenced Bachmann 4-6-0 Periodically Stops and Whines, and re-discovered that we could simply removed the plastic wheel coverings from the wheels themselves! I began the process, and, having broken every plastic plug from Emmett’s rods, left that to Kid-zilla. He salvaged the survivors from Emmett’s old chassis and scrounged the rest from the bits box. Show off!

We got all the wheelsets in place, then we reinforced the screw stems with zip ties and CA glue as we had learned to do earlier in this thread.

Next, it was off to the test stand…

…but only after a brief lecture from Kid-zilla about the importance of testing as you go. We paid careful attention to quartering as we installed the rods (Kid-zilla found and cleaned spare pushrod to replave the broken one on Emmett), tested again, and then proceeded to final assembly.

Emmett took one more trip on the test stands before “his” final test, a return to service.

Video: “Emmett’s” Final Test

Kid-zilla is over the moon. I have no idea how many trips Emmett will make before Bachmman quality leads to his shredded gears and embrittled plastic, but, for now, the circus rides the rails on the island of No’u’ea!

Thanks to all who gave advice, parts, and encouragement to get this train moving!

Eric

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If K-Z keeps going with the repair knowledge you’re instilling in him, you’ll not need an appliance repairman in the future. :innocent: :sunglasses:

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Hopefully! Then we’ll have more ca$h for the Triple O! :nerd_face: :steam_locomotive: :railway_car: :railway_car: :railway_car: :palm_tree: :beach_umbrella: :palm_tree:

We made a bit of progress today yanking apart ex-North Star. Even Oldest Son lent a hand. We will have to grind off a stuck screw to salvage the cowcatcher…

…and we plan to test to see if the motor works at all once Kid-zilla removes the steam chests, pistons, and push rods. The wheels are corroded beyond worth saving, so I told him he could paint them rust to make a junkyard scene (The MIK is coming).

I had him wash the firebox and boiler portion, and then we test fit it to a modern chassis. I had read that this will take some modification to the to body of the locos…

…but it looks like that’ll do just nicely!

Kid-zillla how has the task of filing off the flashing on the boiler and smoke box, scrubbing the corrosion off the various metal parts, and finding a suitable steam dome. Then, and only then, will it be off to the Palm of Spray Painting. He has been doing his research, and he has settled on a silver metallic smokebox, a gloss black boiler jacket, and (presumably) a flat black cab and firebox. The boiler will retain the brass trim to match the wheels on the chassis.

We have some electrical work to do, too. Does the smoke generator still work? Does the light still work? How do we wire this to the new chassis? How do we mount the two switches (polarity and smoke generator) to the smokebox which only has one hole? I’ll involve him in the testing, but he is not ready for the soldering iron; in fact, he still makes fun of my soldering…and for good reasons!

I have charged him to find a steam dome; to remove flashing from the boiler; to salvage repair parts from the old chassis; and to remove corrosion from metal bits. The hard part for me will be to ensure progress while not making this seem like a burden. Lack of progress and enforced progress are equally sure interest killers!

Updates as progress merits!

Eric

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I read this far and started picturing an Amtrak inspired paint scheme. Somewhat glad I was wrong. :innocent: :sunglasses:

I recall it is to do with the air-tanks that fit the boiler behind the smokebox - you haven’t got to them yet! They take a little fettling. You can look on the “Ask the Bach-mann” website and search for it.

For electrical stuff, the wiring diagram is on the Bachmann website.

I would forget the polarity switch, as you know what you need for your railroad. Just use the smoke switch.

or just use a drill and a file till you got a second hole.

Eric and anyone else, there is a guy on Facebook, that makes replacement gears for almost any locomotive. If it’s one he is not familiar with he just needs diameter and tooth count. If anyone that doesn’t have Fbook needs some message me and I will go thru him for you or get his email/ phone number so you can contact him directly

I’ll try and encourage you to let him get some practice, he’s not far off the age that I started. Grab some scrap wire and dud components and try and prove his mess is worse than yours… :grin:

Cheers
N

Pete,

His name is Jiro Yeramian. We have used his gears in another loco. He is to be recommended!

Eric

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OK, we’ll see what he says when I offer the soldering iron to him!

Eric

Update:

Good diving weather, a family gathering, Brahms Requiem practice, church services. and other non-train stuff kept progress to a minimum. Over the course of the week, though, Kid-zilla did file and sand off most of the flashing. I finished the job by hitting metal parts with a brush fitting on the Dremel. A challenge now has been to get him to understand that he needs to take care to get the parts as clean as possible. I think he is leaning towards begging for a spare steam dome, but I am encouraging him to keep looking for now.

We have begun to discuss paint, so we tested our available metallic paints on some junked components.

I’m not fond of either, actually. Does anyone have a color suggestion for the smokebox? This year’s brand seems to be Rustoleum. The Krylon is still on a whaleship rounding the Horn…

Regarding paint…

  • Should we paint the smokebox flat black first and the cover it with the metallic paint? I vaguely remember that is a way to tone down the shininess.

  • He has chosen gloss black for the boiler jacket, steam dome, sand dome and stack. Would the cab have been gloss black to match, or should other components be flat black? The OR&L derelicts are no longer good sources of information, having been painted and repainted over the years.

I should mention some sort of AMTRAK markings are still in play!

We continued to strip the chassis for salvageable parts, especially those plugs that hold the rods to the wheels. We…rather he… salvaged exactly one of those, but only after I had broken three and gave up on it.

One of the pushrods was broken and the side rods had cracked where they connect to the center driver. I see junk pile project…The drivers are very corroded and will probably also enter some sort of junk load. The chassis was in good shape, but it must be a very early model. There are no bearings, and there is no gear box. Metal rods penetrate the chassis and hold the sundry gears, while a glob of hot glue held the motor. This use the plungers like Emmett, but, unlike Emmett, there was no provision for the later brass “bus bars.” If nothing else, we are learning a lot about the various generations of B’mann 10-wheelers!

However old this thing, we thought it would be fun to put power to a set of plungers to see what happened.

Video: Cranking up an Old Motor!

Unbelievable! There was a lot of grinding, which Kid-zilla has alleviated to some degree through cleaning. Still, we cannot get some of the caked on grease off the inner walls of the chassis.

The idea is to get this “good enough” to serve as a backup for Emmett or the foundation for some other project. In the meantime, he is using this as way to see how power gets from the controller to the train. Not a bad use for an old motor!

Kid-zilla has christened this loco Gold Star, future iron horse pulling the Gold Star Express. Clearly, he sees the end in sight! I am trying to ensure sufficient progress to keep him interested while also working at a pace that will lead to a sound loco in which he can take pride for years.

Updates as progress merits!

Eric