Large Scale Central

Transformer experiment

General Discussion
#1

Tried an experiment with a little LGB 50084 transformer (22v/1amp) on a flex track circle that’s a couple of inches under 8’ diameter. I wanted to see how different locos would perform with this little fella on such a tight piece of track.

USA 20 tonner and USA GP-38, both towing a Gunderson, ran without trouble. No surprise. So did an Aristo Dash-9 without the Gunderson. Surprise!

USA SD-40 ran OK at low speed. However, cranking it up to 3 on the transformer’s scale of 4 (same as we did with the first three locos) caused the SD-40 to stall. Surprise!

Changing over from the little LBG to the 20amp Bridgewerks fixed the SD-40’s problem.

As far as the Dash-9 and the SD-40 are concerned, it looks like we’re comparing an F250 with a Corvette. Would you agree?

#2
Dave Healy said:
Tried an experiment with a little LGB 50084 transformer (22v/1amp) on a flex track circle that's a couple of inches under 8' diameter. I wanted to see how different locos would perform with this little fella on such a tight piece of track.

USA 20 tonner and USA GP-38, both towing a Gunderson, ran without trouble. No surprise. So did an Aristo Dash-9 without the Gunderson. Surprise!

USA SD-40 ran OK at low speed. However, cranking it up to 3 on the transformer’s scale of 4 (same as we did with the first three locos) caused the SD-40 to stall. Surprise!

Changing over from the little LBG to the 20amp Bridgewerks fixed the SD-40’s problem.

As far as the Dash-9 and the SD-40 are concerned, it looks like we’re comparing an F250 with a Corvette. Would you agree?


Dave,

It all depends on your perspective. :wink: The way I look at it: the engines with the most efficient motors i.e. lots of power and comparatively little current draw are my favourites.
While I understand that relatively inefficent motors are also inexpensive, it still puzzles me why one would use outdated technology if one has alternatives at a reasonable price.

All it does is create plenty of problems - from powerpack requirements to DCC-decoder requirements - which could be avoided. Now if someone tells me that one needs that to develop that amount of pulling power … hmmmmm, really???

#3

I did a similar test with an older LGB mogul with analog sound.
The starter set transformer would kick off after about 45 minutes of running.
Then after it cooled down, it would run the mogul for another half hour, and so on.

How long did you let the USA’s and Aristo’s run?

jb

#4

All it looks like to me is you set up a test designed to fail and not give any real empirical results.
I do believe all you proved is that the power supply is crXp.

Not knowing which you are calling a plastic car or a real truck, each works best in the environment it was designed for.

Try to get one of those plastic cars you beat a flathead V-8 60 in a 1/4 midget on a 1/4-mile oval dirt track.

#5
Curmudgeon said:
All it looks like to me is you set up a test designed to fail and not give any real empirical results. I do believe all you proved is that the power supply is crXp.

Not knowing which you are calling a plastic car or a real truck, each works best in the environment it was designed for.

Try to get one of those plastic cars you beat a flathead V-8 60 in a 1/4 midget on a 1/4-mile oval dirt track.


Dave,

Perhaps the experiment was to prove if the small LGB powersupply would deliver more than it was supposed to. :lol: That was bound to fail, I have yet to see specs from any mfg that underrate whatever values.

BTW since the power supply has a specific rating, I guess it is “Suitable for G” as long as G requirements don’t exceed the puny 22W provided. Running more than a low wattage starter engine is not in the cards. :wink: :slight_smile:

#6

“I guess it is “Suitable for G” as long as G requirements don’t exceed the puny 22W provided”

What do you expect from a starter set transformer?!?!?!?

#7
John Joseph Sauer said:
"I guess it is "Suitable for G" as long as G requirements don't exceed the puny 22W provided"

What do you expect from a starter set transformer?!?!?!?


JJ,

Did you have a problem understanding my post?

Perhaps you should have quoted the complete paragraph?

HJ said:
BTW since the power supply has a specific rating, I guess it is "Suitable for G" as long as G requirements don't exceed the puny 22W provided. Running more than a low wattage starter engine is not in the cards.
Or was that really not clear enough?

PS Since we (EMM) also build throttles I have a “pretty good idea” how much you can propel with a 22W or VA power supply. And when in doubt, if I need more umph I usually just measure the stall-current and the slippage current (depending on what I want to know for which purpose). Beats guessing any old day!

#8

  1. I didn’t expect the the Dash-9 to run at all with the LGB transformer. The fact that it did, even for five or ten minutes tops, was a surprise. I call that a pass, not a fail, and an interesting result.

  2. Seeing the Dash-9 had run with the LGB, I was surprised that the SD-40 didn’t since it’s a similar-size, 6-axle loco. This test, perfunctory as it is, suggests the designers of the Dash-9 and the SD-40 have very different approaches to motive power. I plan to explore this further, and am keen to discover if anyone out there has already gone down this path.

  3. I accept Beard’s dictum that thinking by analogy is primitive, but I did phrase it as a question. Sure, use a truck when you need a truck, etc., etc.

  4. My Bridgewerks is 20amp, power to spare, but I wanted to see what the little guy could do. If it’s LGB, it’s by definition intended for G scale. Don’t any of you blokes ever fish with light tackle?!!

#9

Most of them don’t have time to fish…with only one oar in the water…:smiley:

#10
Dave Healy said:
1) I didn't expect the the Dash-9 to run at all with the LGB transformer. The fact that it did, even for five or ten minutes tops, was a surprise. I call that a pass, not a fail, and an interesting result.

  1. Seeing the Dash-9 had run with the LGB, I was surprised that the SD-40 didn’t since it’s a similar-size, 6-axle loco. This test, perfunctory as it is, suggests the designers of the Dash-9 and the SD-40 have very different approaches to motive power. I plan to explore this further, and am keen to discover if anyone out there has already gone down this path.

  2. I accept Beard’s dictum that thinking by analogy is primitive, but I did phrase it as a question. Sure, use a truck when you need a truck, etc., etc.

  3. My Bridgewerks is 20amp, power to spare, but I wanted to see what the little guy could do. If it’s LGB, it’s by definition intended for G scale. Don’t any of you blokes ever fish with light tackle?!!


Dave,

No fishing for me, water sports include rowing (two oars, in case Warren is interested) and swimming.

On that “light tackle” analogy, I regularly run LGB and Aristo items with a test powersupply which was originally designed for HO material. Since I avoid the rocket-mode the top voltage is plenty.

#11

#12

Warren Mumpower said:

Warren That’s a nice gesture! :lol: Watch that it doesn’t get airborne! BTW we got more snow up on the hill, but it was the pebbly stuff. Slow as hell, 'til the sun started melting it a bit. Ah well, it’s Spring after all! :lol:

#13

Not spring…yet. You’ve got 6 more days to wait…:confused:

#14

I always thought the seasons changed at the same time in both hemispheres.

Here in OZ we went into Autumn (Fall to you 'murricans) at the end of February.
Which would mean you are now in Springtime.

Am I wrong??

#15
TonyWalsham said:
I always thought the seasons changed at the same time in both hemispheres.

Here in OZ we went into Autumn (Fall to you 'murricans) at the end of February.
Which would mean you are now in Springtime.

Am I wrong??


I do believe it has something to do with when the sun crosses the equator and reaches it’s peak (equinox) on both sides. The northern hemisphere experiencing the opposite season as the southern.

This assumes your comment was serious and not just poking fun at the recent odd weather all over the world. Here in Southern New England we are preparing for our first major snow accumulation of the winter and it is almost spring. I hope the lake thaws for 4th of July (another odd umeriken holiday).

:smiley:

JR

#16

Our seasons are based on the position of the sun with the Spring and Fall changes occurring at the 2 equinoxes…when the days and nights are equal in length which is usually around the 21st or 22 of March and the 21st or 22nd of September. Our Summer and Winter changes occur on the solstices…the shortest and longest days of the year which occur around the 21st or 22nd of June and December. These dates go back to the ancient days of the Celts and Romans who held religious festivals at these times.

#17

The seasonal changes have more to do with your latitude, North or South, than with any date. Where Warren and I live, around 45 degrees north, we get the seasonal changes near the Solstice. I’m not sure where Tony lives, but if it is closer to the Equator, his seasonal changes will be earlier in his Spring, and later in his Autumn.

In Sandy Ago, there are only three seasons, January, February, and Summer. :slight_smile:

Where HJ lives, his spring comes a week or two later than mine and Warrens, and his fall, a week or two earlier.

I remember crossing the Equator aboard various naval vessels. I went from Summer to Winter in the blink of an eye, in the space of a heartbeat, and didn’t notice any change except for the toilets flushing backwards. :stuck_out_tongue:

There, that should clear things up. Or not. :lol:

#18

OK gents.

I get the point.
I did have a reasonable education and do know about the equinoxes and their relationship to the seasons.

Here in Australia the month of March marks the official start of Autumn.

http://www.idp.com/enewsletter/boomerangint/traveltimes/article215.asp

I just (mistakenly it seems) assumed that everone else would have an official start, and end, to a season.

#19
Jon Radder said:
I do believe it has something to do with when the sun crosses the equator and reaches it's peak (equinox) on both sides. The northern hemisphere experiencing the opposite season as the southern.

JR


We’ve known Vernal Equinox all his life and until recently, we didn’t know that the calendar people had named a day after him. This has made him famous in our part of the World.

#20

Young Verne is responsible for more things around here, than he gets credit for.
He sweeps the floor over at the chat room; keeps the ice machine working so you that care for ice in your Coke are happy. Verne is the one that tries to keep young Terry on the correct path. Terry is known to NOT put any bheer into the fridge; instead of keeping it at least half filled…he gets carried away with his Rhoot Bheer…Verne sees to that problem.
Verne also looks after our needs as far as good Cuban Ceegars are concerned. He seems to know ways and means of finding good ones at half price.
The seasons are at his mercy also. He has a direct line to someone in some place close to HaHa Bay Quebec, where the complete control of all weather maters is located…his only problem there is the translation to Canadian (So called) French. Greenside up sometimes get confusing to those in that control room.

So…be kind and understanding with young Verne…he has his hands full, and needs a break every-so-often…like a trip to a train show…

Fr.Fred