Large Scale Central

TrainWorld, vital personal info and eMail

General Discussion
#1

I recently attempted to place a small order (just over $100) with TrainWorld. Because we live in Australia, the TrainWorld operator insisted on a written order - she would not take a phone order. She suggested I eMail or FAX my details, including credit card info. Those details would then be entered into TrainWorld’s computer system, and we’d go from there.

I sent TrainWorld an eMail with my address and the order details. I pointed out that sending credit card information via eMail is bad practice, and offered to phone with my credit card information when the order was confirmed. Shortly after, I received a thank-you eMail in reply, together with an order number and a recommendation about shipping.

Sounded good - but then I called to provide my credit card info. I was told (by a different lady) that I would have to eMail or FAX an image of my credit card to TrainWorld before they’d do business with me.

There are a few things to note:

  1. I’ve recently spent several thousand dollars on G scale equipment from US suppliers (e.g., RLD Hobbies, Charles Ro, Wholesale Trains). In one case (a large order from RLD), I paid by wire transfer, in the other two by credit card. In no case was I asked to do what TrainWorld required.

  2. Although we live abroad, I’m an American citizen with a US bank account. I offered to pay for the order either by wire transfer or by personal check from my US account. TrainWorld refused.

  3. Advising customers to FAX credit card info is reasonable. Advising them to eMail it is not. All the folks on the network I’m responsible for (20+ servers, around 430 workstations, just over a thousand users) have been advised about the security implications of using eMail. To put it bluntly, there is no security.

  4. The risk involved here is like the jar with a million jellybeans. 999,999 of them are delicious. One is filled with deadly poison. Would you eat a jellybean from that jar?

Measure your risk. Use eMail for credit card numbers, CVCs, passwords, PINs, etc. if you have no other choice. If you don’t have to, don’t do it. With TrainWorld, since it’s about buying toys, I cancelled the order. If it was something important and urgent, I’d likely take the chance, despite the fact that I have personal experience of the consequences.

Could I have FAXed TrainWorld the info they wanted? Sure! There’s a 56k modem on my desk. It’s just a matter of disconnecting our ADSL router, powering up the modem, re-booting the PC and sending a FAX off through MS Word. Anyone else at home who wanted to use our little LAN would have been inconvenienced, but only for a half-hour or so. Alternatively, I could have FAXed the info from the post office for a few bucks.

Fact is, I’d rather deal with a supplier where I don’t have the hassle. In my limited experience buying G scale trains from the US, that’s everybody but TrainWorld.

#2

You have to realize you’re dealing with worker bees.
The owner has probably had a problem, and has set forth rules and guidelines.

I know when I run an international credit card, there is no way to confirm it.
I get approval codes, but it is out of the scope of my service to actually confirm it.
When they ask for address and ZIP, well, the address might work (except PO boxes), but 9B3 4F2 or 3158 won’t.

Granted, e-mails are not a secure way to do it, unless they have a secure website (which they probably do not), but there are e-mail ways around that, but it takes 6 e-mails in reverse sequence to do it.

I don’t think, in this day of scams and fraud, that their request is unreasonable.

TOC

#3

We can agree to disagree, TOC. I think TrainWorld’s business model is absurd.

That said, I’m not questioning TrainWorld’s right to run their business as they see fit. However, since TrainWorld is the only American toy train reseller I’ve come across who sees the need for this nonsense, I can spend my hard-earned $$$ with those who don’t, and everybody’s happy.

I question the propriety of TrainWorld’s suggesting to potential customers that they eMail vital personal information. If this thread does nothing more than alert forum members to the dangers of putting that sort of info into eMails, it will have served its purpose.

On a positive note, I like both the business approach and customer service ethic of RLD Hobbies in Albion, Illinois. I’m also impressed with the level of personal tech support David Sauerwald, the boss at Bridgewerks, offers to his customers.

#4

TOC, I think they blew it when they refused a wire transfer! I agree with the man. I always figure that if they want my money they can do business my way or I’ll find somebody else who will! If it’s local, my way is usually cash on the barrelhead!

#5

Boy, must be the headache. I can’t see the part about a wire transfer, and I read it again.
Like I said, tho, worker bees.

I’ve run into that issue many times, not just in this segment of the hobby, and they have their “guidelines” to follow.
On another tack, I have done stuff for folks overseas before on my machine and had it shipped direct.

TOC

#6

As a never terribly successfull businessman, I never made it hard for customers to send me money.

#7

I’ve run into this a bunch having done business online for years. Some places seem like they just dont want your money.

ARGH!

#8

Bob, fortunately we have choices…:slight_smile: They don’t want my money, I’ll gladly take it elsewhere.

#9

Turns out TrainWorld has TWO sites, a bit like St. Aubin’s had until recently. Unlike St. Aubin’s, TrainWorld did not make this clear on the web, and the ladies I spoke to never said a word about the new site. I only found out about it via a tip on the G Scale Mad forum, where a lot of UK and Australian G scalers hang out. A few blokes there have had similar experiences with TrainWorld.

However, some people, including an Aussie from Queensland, have had a win with TrainWorld’s second site. It’s a different kettle of fish to the first, more along the lines of what you’d expect in the early 21st century. Interestingly, most items are slightly dearer than on the old site - but what I want works out cheaper! Best part is you don’t have to deal with Scudge and Wolfie - just type in your details and let 'er rip!

So, I’m giving it a go, but have left a disclaimer in the comment box that TrainWorld should cancel the order if they still want me to eMail/FAX my credit card details. Will post the result FYI.

Had to chuckle at Tom’s comment. I’m with you, mate!

#10

I am the Aussie from Queensland which Dave refers to. I had bad experiences with Trainworld, years ago. But the new system they now have for processing e-mail orders is on a par with Ridge Road Station, which remain my preferred US supplier.
Regards, Danny Sheehan in Oz.

#11
Tom Ruby said:
As a never terribly successfull businessman, I never made it hard for customers to send me money.
Tom,

They should have sent you more of the stuff! :wink: :frowning: :wink:

#12

I’m always accepting donations…:lol:

#13

Looks like my experience may be similar to Danny’s. I ordered from the TrainWorld secure site on the 12th; DHL attempted to deliver on the 16th. That’s New York to Perth in four days, which is excellent.

Unfortunately, we were away when the DHL courier called. I’ve asked them to deliver the goods to work (DHL has a 24/7 number, so I was able to ring on a Sunday). We’ll see how that goes.

From the ABOUT US detail on the TrainWorld site, it appears that Aileen, the lady who insisted on having the eMailed/FAXed credit card details, is one of the owners. This sounds more and more like the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing at TrainWorld.

This experience underscores the value of forums like these. Without Danny’s input, I would’ve written TrainWorld off. With it, it looks like I’m a chance to get the goods I want at an excellent price.

#14

  1. Good news: the DHL courier delivered a package to work on the Monday, the day after I called to have it re-directed. TrainWorld is the only US outfit I’ve dealt with that uses DHL. Their shipping rates are excellent, far cheaper than UPS and cheaper even than USPS Air.

  2. Bad news: TrainWorld got the order wrong - it was incomplete.

  3. Good news: TrainWorld is fixing the error at the right price, and is again using DHL to courier the goods out to Oz.

Conclusion:

  1. TrainWorld’s on-line site is worth a look. Be aware that they are still having teething problems. There is no order history - your order disappears when it’s filled. Prices on the old site and the on-line site don’t match, but my limited experience is that you get the lower price.

  2. Avoid phoning TrainWorld for a credit card order.