Large Scale Central

Track Tuning Ideas

Track and Trestles
#1

The RC & TR is a little over 8 years old and I’m finding that parts of mainline that have concrete roadbed have consistent issues with derailments or the front truck of an engine will come off the rail. The first phase is all concrete and my second phase is a ladder system. The ladder seems the better running of the two methods although for my AMS cars I’ve had to soften a curve or two.

With the concrete roadbed I’ve tried shimming unevenness under the track which seems to work for a while. There is even one portion of concrete roadbed that has lifted up due to a tree root.

I’ve considered adding an overlay material not only smooth things out but to also raise the roadbed a little…I’ve also though of just scrapping all of it and redoing.

Sorry for the lengthy background but I appreciate your thoughts!

Richard

#2

Tearing out concrete can be a real pain, and then you have to dispose of the concrete. Could you do an overlay of a modified ladder type system? It wouldn’t have to be as rugged as the other ladder, since it would rest on the concrete. But being a continuous ladder type system, it would smooth out irregularities and joints. As for the part lifted by the tree root, that should probably be removed, since its only going to continue to lift.

Just my thoughts.

#3

Has your track been stepped on? Is it attached to the concrete or floating? Usually twisted track causes derailments. Does your engine derail in both directions? It could be the engine over the rough track combination.

Perhaps you can glue a composite board to the concrete and skip over the tree root section or tear out that section and make it a reason for a bridge.

#4

I agree with attempting to build over the concrete.

Also I would look at the loco for a problem as well. I’d check the wheel spacing and that the truck moves free.

For AMS cars it helps to leave the trucks a bit loose. I usually make mine tight then back the screw off 3/4 of a turn. Plus, if you have the original brass wheels or the first run metal ones they can give you fits. The flange has a sharp edge to it that likes to grab deficiencies in the rail. I learned this from Phil at Phil’s narrow gauge. Once I got them tuned up they ran flawlessly.

T

#5

You are going to need to address the root problem… I’d remove the concrete a foot on either side and bridge it with your ladder.

The rest probably needs a smooth surface and no ballast.

Good luck.

John

#6

I would sure be looking at seeing if I could fix it before tearing out any roadbed. First, check for side to side level.

#7

The idea of overlaying a modified ladder over the existing concrete is something I hadn’t thought about… Great idea.!! The bridge over the root area… Also great idea!! That’s why I love this site. Home Depot has a vinyl siding that is about 1/2" square. Enough height to raise everything out of the mud in some areas and give an even surface.

Thanks for the suggestions…

Richard

#8

Todd…to answer your question the track is screwed to the concrete every 4’ or so withe a concrete screw.

#9

If your concrete is heaving/settling, then I would think you don’t want any connection to it for your track, like connecting a ladder, etc.

If you put something on top of a base that is moving up and/or down, I’d expect that something to move also.

I know many people have had success with concrete, but every installation I have seen in California has had issues.

I’d “decouple” my track from the concrete.

Greg

#10
See below! 
#11

Greg Elmassian said:

If your concrete is heaving/settling, then I would think you don’t want any connection to it for your track, like connecting a ladder, etc.

If you put something on top of a base that is moving up and/or down, I’d expect that something to move also.

I know many people have had success with concrete, but every installation I have seen in California has had issues.

I’d “decouple” my track from the concrete.

Greg

Richard Mynderup said: Todd…to answer your question the track is screwed to the concrete every 4’ or so withe a concrete screw.

Ya exnay on the screws!

#12

The screws are easy to remove. But I don’t know about heaving, except the section where the tree root has lifted things. We don’t heavy frost in the Central Valley…over all it’s a pretty mild climate.

#13

Did you use re-bar when you poured the concrete? Expansion joints?

#14

Might not be heaving, but settling / compacting of the base under the roadbed. I’m in New England where we get frost to 40" on occasion. I have some 6" thick concrete roadbed, but the track floats on it. My issue is that the track that is ballasted continues to rise as more ballast works it’s way under the ties.

I agree - get rid of the screws and check your side-to-side level and shim where needed.

#15

When I started, I read a LOT before track went down. I read EVERY post on LSC, MLS and LSOL.

The track bed issue was always a source of controversy, but at that time, everyone wanted to “secure” the track. One by one, the people who had it screwed down to something, changed to free floating or semi-floating. (A few people could still leave it screwed down, to be fair).

I figured I could free-float my track because I did not have freezing issues, nor drainage issues. That worked well. As a beginner, of course I had issues, and derailments. I started to learn about switches, and realized that they were not level in any direction!

I put some hardibacker underneath them, and that worked ok, and then ballasted… Whoops! the ballast slowly worked underneath the switch and elevated it, to about 1.5 times the diameter of the ballast.

I finally realized that the hardibacker was unnecessary, good ballast and maintenance was all that was needed. Trying to screw the track to the hardibacker was also unsuccessful.

Since the OP has already identified the problem where the concrete has moved, and/or the natural “movement” of ballasted track has caused problems, I’d say this is a case where the local environment says “don’t screw the track down”.

Regards, Greg

#16

And I come from the opposite side. I started with free floating. I experienced a lot of problems and switched to screwing the track down. Much better.

#17

I’ve tried just about every method of track support there is, from 2 inch steel angle, to concrete, to ladder, floating on ballast, and am now having the most success (for me) using Fr Fred’s method of just putting the track directly on 2X6 wood, on benchwork. I don’t use ballast on the wood because it is not necessary. As time goes on, I’m going to replace all of the ladder and floating track with 2X stuff, simply because it works the best for me.

The concrete was ok, but I pulled it out when I changed the track plan.

Some things to remember when using this method is to join the planks together using a 2 ft chunk of 2X, the same width as the plank, and at least 8 deck screws, 3 inches long to hold them together. This will assure that the plank ends are on the same level. Glue is not necessary, and may cause a problem if you change your mind.

Purchase only enough of the 2X wood that you can reasonably expect to install in a 24 hr period, to avoid warping.

Pick through the pile at the lumber yard yourself, to get the best stuff that you can.

Install the wood crown up, so that rain will run off, rather than puddle in the middle.

#18

If it was me,

Lay a line of Titebond III along each side of your roadbed and put ballast over it. Use lots of glue and build up either side so as to make a trough down the center. Release the track from the screws and fill in the trough around and over the ties with more ballast so that the track now free floats between the two ballast berms.

#19

Todd, That’s an interesting method. First time I’ve heard that suggested. Is this how you do yours? or just how you would fix Richards? Do you do this over a concrete wood or other base?

#20

Randy Lehrian Jr. said:

Todd, That’s an interesting method. First time I’ve heard that suggested. Is this how you do yours? or just how you would fix Richards? Do you do this over a concrete wood or other base?

I’m suggesting this as a fix. But I do have one short section where the track sits on cinder blocks as it gains elevation and did this.