Large Scale Central

Track spiking/laying question

Track and Trestles
#1

I am beginning to hate this forum. I already have modeling ADHD and this forum doesn’t help. As the completion of my loco build is nearing and work on the trestle is to resume and learning about photography and the desire to set up an indoor display track/diorama; I have come to the conclusion that I need an indoor diorama display in which I can store my locomotive and shoot some pictures of my various projects.

I have about 14 feet of wall space in my man cave that I can devote to a 3-4 foot wide display scene. It is already decorated in train stuff. So it will fit right in. But as a static display I want the scene to be top notch and as authentic looking as possible.

This brings me to the question of the track. How much nicer does hand spiked track look compared to the 1:20.3 commercially available track with tie strips. We aren’t talking very much to do so if it looks noticeably better then I might want to go this route.

Could I get close up picks of both???

#2

Indoors and where it’s going to be seen up close? Definitely go hand-laid. No photos needed, it’s no contest. It’s worth the time, especially given your era where hand-hewn timbers with no tie plates would be appropriate.

Get some basswood and cut your own ties, roughing them up a bit as you go. For narrow gauge–especially the era you’re modeling–something on the order of 6" x 8" x 6.5’ would be typical, though that varied. With only 14’ (and some of that on a trestle where you’d want to hand-lay anyway), and 10 - 12 ties per foot, you’re looking at 140 ties. That’s an evening’s work at best to cut them and get them ready. Then get an aluminum baking pan, lay the ties in there, and pour dark walnut stain over them (presuming the CR&N used creosoted ties). Otherwise, you can age them with a stain of your preference.

The basswood is soft enough to where you should be able to push the spikes in without needing to pre-drill the holes, but it’s not a sign of weakness to do so regardless. (I do with cedar and redwood.)

For rails, you can use painted aluminum. It’s cheap, and the railhead will be the proper silvery color as opposed to using brass. You could use nickel silver, but that’s pricey–though for 14 feet, it might be reasonable.

Later,

K

#3

You might want to look at the Spiker from www.Switchcrafters.com , they also sell spikes as well. It’s a bit pricey but worth it if you plan on spiking more than just this diorama. I used it for my bridges and trestles and it made things a lot easier.

#4

For coloring ties, I use the ebony stain, from Minwax. Much darker than Dark Walnut. I’ve tried them both, and ebony looks closer to creosote, to my eye. You should do the same to see which one you like best.

For outdoors, I mix the ebony with boiled linseed oil, about 1/4 ebony/linseed. Let the ties soak for a day or so, drain, then dry. Used motor oil works, too.

#5

Devon,

on the indoor portion of my layout, I cut scale ties from scrap pine stained with several different shades of stain, and I use code 250 alum rail, painted. you may want to use Code 215 rail for a more prototype height. buy a stick of nickel silver to make switch frogs and points, or you can purchase as well from Liagas.

http://www.llagastrack.com/

Al P.

#6

Randy McDonald said:

You might want to look at the Spiker from www.Switchcrafters.com , they also sell spikes as well. It’s a bit pricey but worth it if you plan on spiking more than just this diorama. I used it for my bridges and trestles and it made things a lot easier.

I’ll second that. My back would have been a lot worse without “The Spiker” and the blue air would still need to be cleared.

That said, if it’s to be a static display don’t forget to use tie plates, unfortunately the Spiker doesn’t work with the ME tie plates that I’ve been using for my “it’s in the works” RhB diorama.

My “How to” pages on the topic including producing the ties.

http://www.rhb-grischun.ca/html/handlaying_track.html

#7

Yes, my vote is for hand spiked. I did that on my HO/HOn30 module and the track looks a LOT better then any pre-made track. I used some scrap pine for my ties on my module. For the switch I built for my garden railrod I used ceder. I had to pre-dril so that the ties wouldn’t split. For my HO/HOn 30 I used homasote as my sub-roadbed, so the spikes would have something to hold onto and so the track would be stable.

As for a 3 to 4 feet deep display, if I read that right, I would opt for 2 to maybe 3 feet deep. You want to be able to reach the whole thing, and work on it, without crushing anything in the foreground when reaching for something in the background.

#8

Thanks everyone sounds like no point in even discussing not doing hand laid ties. So hand laid it will be. As for the details I didn’t even think about tie plates or no tie plates or treated or non treated ties. I will look at some picks closely to see what they did. I do believe I read somewhere that they started the first year without ballast and non treated ties. But then the next year after suffering many problems over the winter switched to ballast and treated ties. This will be a single straight run no switches. So the track laying will be as straight forward as it comes.

#9

Ok after looking at the details of the track I can see why I would need to hand lay it. Here are a couple of pictures of the early track. They are rough cut ties, untreated (as far as I can tell) and I do not see tie plates. These photos are 1887 or 1888 no later. This would be the era I am going for in the display. So even f they did later ballast and use different ties what I am shooting for is this look.

Will need to get those ends right and mae sure I have non symetrical spacing and not have the ends of the ties line up. Oh boy that will behard for me. I tend to not like things that are not uniform but thats how they did it.

#10

David Maynard said:

As for a 3 to 4 feet deep display, if I read that right, I would opt for 2 to maybe 3 feet deep. You want to be able to reach the whole thing, and work on it, without crushing anything in the foreground when reaching for something in the background.

Thats a good point. Especially because this will likely be at eye level or slightly less. I know that sounds weird but it is part of an over all plan. This will be a shelf in which the underside will be lights for a HO display that will be under it, which in turn sits on a 2 1/2 -3 high book case. This whole dumb idea started out before I got into G. I wanted an HO layout of another local 1980-present era short line the St Maries River Railroad. That gave way to practicality and turn from layout to static display of their yard. Well I need a book case also so decided to build this display on top of a book case. I wanted to enclose the static display with lexan to prevent dust and damage. So to accommodate that I decided to build a shelf over the display and used recess lighting. Well now I want to put the G scale display on that shelf and do lighting at the ceiling. I know this sounds crazy but what the heck a wall of trains.

#11

Yup and use code 215 rail, looks to be 60-70 pounders. Rail is weighed by the yard.

On3 was my rivet counting scale. All track was hand laid. Had to be. Only wood really looks like wood with variations in tone and colors in my opinion. Once you see the repeating pattern all plastic ties look the same, plus there are un sightly gaps at rail junctions.

Soon me lad, you’ll be thumpin your chest with happiness of a good job well done!

Well after a certain challenge is satisfied…

#12

A lot of the older narrow gauge track didn’t use tie plates. Also while the spiker is an awesome tool, of you’re only going to use it for the module I wouldn’t buy one. If you really want to use one borrow one from somebody. For weathering, cut all your ties sit with them for an evening and take a pairing knife to them. Cut up the edges and ding them up while you watch TV.
T

#13

Devon, if you are not in a hurry, and really want the best, collect small branches in the 12-16 scale inch diameter range. Sand one side flat and cut to length. Glue down the ‘ties’ then take a belt sander to the top to get a good flat surface. Grab your course Zona saw, rake the tops of the ties, and stain as desired. You will need to pre drill but you won’t get a more realistic looking tie.

#14

I would look to the hard woods as well, maple, birch, aspen, maybe not oak - too coarse grained.

#15

Devon,

Lots of great info thus far in the thread, but no one has posted the close-ups you requested. Here are a few options to consider:

From left to right -

Micro Engineering Code 250

Llagas Creek Code 215

Hand-spiked Code 215 on Switchcrafter ties.

All rail is aluminum painted with various shades of brown spray paint. Here are close-ups of each:

This is the Micro Engineering Code 250. This section of flex track was on my previous layout in California back in the early 90’s. I pulled it up when I moved to Oklahoma 17 years ago, but haven’t reused it yet.

This is a section of Llagas Creek Code 215 I recently made awaiting use. I have about 800 feet of this type of track down so far and it is my favorite.

This is a section of hand spiked Code 215. I spike these sections at the workbench and then use them like flex track for short sections between turnouts (which I also hand spike on Switchcrafter ties.) I use the Switchcrafter “Spiker” tool for hand spiking.

This is the way I used to do it - hand-spiked code 215 to cedar ties using a pair of spike insertion pliers from Micro-mark. The ties would weather to a silver-gray after about a year. I don’t use this method anymore and do not recommend it.

#16

Anecdote:

The Santa Fe railroad planted Eucalyptus Trees in S California for ties. There’s a town Called Rancho Santa Fe in Northern San Diego County where those trees were grown.

The wood is tough and doesn’t rot, but it grows in spirals! They couldn’t cut ties out of them.

They gave up on them.

John

#17

Bob C

Your idea of using branches is a great one. This section will be all about the details, it is where I will let the rivet counter in me run wild. I went and measure the space and it is 12 feet long. at 10 ties to the foot that’s only a 120 ties. In the pictures they seem closer so even at 12 per foot that is only 144 ties. I am even considering a tunnel section where the ties wouldn’t need to be perfect in the tunnel.

The whole idea of this project would be to display and photograph. So details will be important. I like the actual log tie idea.

Bob H

Thanks for the pictures. It does confirm that the hand laid track is better for this project in that it does not have tie plates and the ties just wont look right.

On the layout outside I wont be a picky and a commercial track will be fine.

#18

I measured the space and it is 12 by 2 I could make one end a bit wider and might extend that to 3 feet. I will have to keep in mind so I can reach everything. I will have to move this up on the priority list. maybe after the loco build and the challenge.

#19

Devon,

I can’t take credit for originality, I got this idea from an article in Railroad Model Craftsman back in the '70s. A gentleman wrote the article on how he did his narrow gauge logging line and I never forgot the technique. I hope it works well for you as it really looked good on his pike.

Bob C.

#20

Every once in awhile have a tie @ an off angle (not @ 90 to rails )
We want to see progress photo’s!:wink: