What is the recommended minimum radius and turnout size for running Aristo and USA Trains large locomotives reliably.
Do they require #6 turnouts or can they work with Aristo Wide Radius or LBG 1600 turnouts
Thanks
Stan
A friend ran his Aristo Mallet on my pike and I have the Wide switches with absolutely no problems beside the overhang looking odd.
John
Stan,
Technically I BELIEVE almost any manufactured locomotive will ‘run’ on 8 foot diameter track. That said, reliability of running and appearance is another thing. A USAT Big Boy runs great on a 20 foot diameter curve, but the overhang is still horrible relative to the prototype. If memory is correct the Big Boy will also negotiate the wide radius switches, again, not pretty.
Without knowing the locomotives in question its hard to give a “correct” answer. Most will run on 8 foot diameter, as has been said. But the larger the diameter the better.
I have 9.5 and 10 foot diameter curves and wide radius switches and my trains run just fine. Aristo RS3, Aristo E8, Aristo Pacific, USA F3, and assorted Bachmann, Heartland, and LGB locomotives.
recommended: (not minimum possible)
except for 80 foot passenger cars, and the biggest usat locos, the aristo wr switches - about #4 frog and they are indeed curved to a 10 foot diameter on the diverging route.
You can get almost anything on the aristo wr, but you start having reliability problems.
Greg
Thanks so much for all the information.
We are trying to incorporate the concept of an inside yard for a module layout for the show in Springfield in a few weeks and I am trying to ensure that the majority of locomotive can use it.
Thanks
Stan
I cant think of anything that won’t negotiate a 10 ft diameter turnout. It probably will look silly doing so, and may complain a bit, but it will make it.
Well, in a yard you are concerned with the switch “angles”, i.e. frogs, and also the “S curves” that can be created.
Using a good layout will minimize any “S curves”, so you are down to the switches “individually”
The Aristo WR switches are I believe a #5 frog (I think I mistakenly said #4 before), this is why most locos will go through them.
#4 frogs can be an issue.
Stan, can you post a drawing of the design?
If you lay things out well, virtually all locos will work well
Greg, I measured the Aristo Wide Radius frogs. They are 3.7, not 5 as you surmised. I just thought that you would want to know. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)
Really? Wow, I mean to measure them again tomorrow, I swear I did measure them once.
The frog is pretty darn short to get an accurate measurement, the curved rails beyond the frog compound the problem.
Greg
I’ll be interested to see what you find out. I used calipers, and I agree they are difficult to measure, even when removed from the rest of the turnout.
Most times I read a post twice before replying to it, helps make sure I’m answering the question posed.
In this case I had forgotten I have a gallon ziplock full of Aristo frogs.
Two quick measurements (no coffee yet)
length width
0.3195 .4495
2.2705 0.9485
so length is 1.951
width is 0.499
ratio is 3.91
So I can measure a few more times… but I actually did the above several times. I’d call it a good 4.
Greg
Frogswitch LLC Does not make any RR parts anymore…
Greg Elmassian said:
Most times I read a post twice before replying to it, helps make sure I’m answering the question posed.
In this case I had forgotten I have a gallon ziplock full of Aristo frogs.
Two quick measurements (no coffee yet)
length width
0.3195 .4495
2.2705 0.9485
so length is 1.951
width is 0.499
ratio is 3.91
So I can measure a few more times… but I actually did the above several times. I’d call it a good 4.
Greg
Ummmm, can you 'splain this? Maybe after you’ve had some more coffee? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)I’m not doubting you, its just that I can’t process it.
sure…
you are trying to determine the frog number which is the ratio of length to the width of the frog.
To get a ratio, you need 2 numbers.
one way to do this is at the theoretical point of frog, where the frog truly would come to a razor point.
Then you can just measure the width of the frog at some distance from the theoretical point of frog. The frog number is the ratio of the length to the width.
BUT, no frog made is ever to a razor point, because it would wear off immediately, or break, and thus the term “theoretical point of frog”.
IF you were drawing a frog on paper, it would be easy to extend the lines to this point and measure.
But you cannot easily determine the theoretical point of frog from a casting.
So, you take measurements at TWO spots on the frog.
I used a common reference point to measure length, and of course width was across the frog.
In the case of the Aristo frog this is easier because the wing rails are a consistent thickness and match the frog angle perfectly.
So using the two measurements of length and width, I get a single pair of 1.951 of length and 0.499 of width, and the ratio of those two is 3.91.
Greg
duplicate post deleted
Hi Greg,
I remember changing frogs in the Aristo switches. I have some in a bag and don’t know which one is the original
or the replacement. What I did notice is that some have the number 1 on the back and some have the number 2.
Since you have them handy, you might be able to answer the question
Kevin
No idea, will look in the bag, but that actually would prove nothing, really need to get one of each and do detailed measurements. Could have been a single die that made two frogs at a time.
The important information is that the new frogs were a bit thinner so that they sat down into the rail bed lower and matched the rest of the rails better.
I think there was also a change in the flangeway depth.
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
Stan, can you post a drawing of the design?
Greg
Yard worked well. Crossovers not so well as the S curve in the crossovers was a bit to much for the larger USA locomotives.
One of our modules had a turnout to a track behind the module which we used to build a 5 track yard.
Stan
