Large Scale Central

Track Cleaning Alchemy

Track and Trestles
#1

As you may already know and not care, I’ve been rebuilding the Iron Island Railroad for quite some time now. Yesterday, I finally reached the point of reassembling all the track ties that I painted many months ago. During all these months in storage, the already weathered brass rails weathered even more. So much more that I needed to clean about an inch of the ends so that the track clamps would have a nice conductive surface to clamp on.

My first thought was to use some Tarn X that I had lying around. I poured about an inch into an old can and stood the rails in it for about 15 minutes. Then, I pulled out the rails, polished them a bit with a rag, and rinsed them. The Tarn X did a great job of returning the AML brass back to its nice yellow, brass color. Well, at least the last inch at each end- the rest of the piece looked awful (or if you prefer, it had a nice, aged patina).

Okay. Well, here’s where the alchemy part comes in. While waiting the 15 minutes for the Tarn X to do it’s thing, I happened across a container of muriatic acid that I normally use to change the pool ph. Naturally, I thought, “I’ve got some time on my hands. Why not try a test piece of track and see if it works any better than the Tarn X?”

I don’t think I would use the word “better.” Maybe, more like… “AMAZING!!!” Or perhaps, “INCREDIBLE!!!” All I did was soak up a small amount of muriatic acid on a paper towel (and yes, I did wear gloves and safety glasses), and wipe down the rail. All the corrosion just came off. No waiting. No rubbing. Instant gratification. Now, the one thing I did notice is that the rail ends that I cleaned with the Tarn X were yellow/brassy colored. The complete 6 foot rail that I cleaned (effortlessly, mind you) with the muriatic acid was definitely copper colored when finished.

So, I have to ask, “Does this resulting copper color mean anything- Good or bad?” Did the muriatic acid etch or alter the brass rail adversely? Will this method of cleaning brass rail adversely affect plated train wheels? Does muriatic acid affect plastic ties (it does come in a plastic bottle)? Any chemists/metalergists out there?

If there are no negative long or short term effects, I think I may have found a better way to routinely clean brass track. Take a pole sander with a sponge or a piece of cloth on the end, lightly moisten it with some muriatic acid (available at Home Depot, pool stores, etc), and walk around the layout. No scrubbing required.

Your thoughts.

-Kevin.

#2

Muratic is just a stronger acid than in tarn-x. You could have used phosphoric acid, or coca cola.

When you use too much acid (strength, time) the zinc etches faster than the copper in your brass, but it’s just the metal on the surface…

Once the acid is neutralized, it won’t attack anything. If you are just wiping the rail top, it sort of self-neutralizes.

I’ve used tarn-x for years.

Greg

#3

I’ve been using Muriatic acid for years for cleaning old and dirty track. When I moved to where I am now (10 years ago), I took most of my old track which had been on the ground for 9 years, removed the tie strips, and laid the rails in a long container filled with the acid, let them soak for 30 seconds, and took them out and washed them. They’ve been down for, as I mentioned, ten years now with no apparent effect on their performance. In fact, they are nicely weathered now.

Also, when I make changes to my RR and have to move or replace sections, I dip the track ends and my rail clamps into a small tub of the acid to clean them. They tend to go back to looking weathered in just a few months.

Doc Watson

#4

I am not an alchemist, nor do I play one on TV. But my thought is that since brass is a metal, and nonporous, the the acid would only affect the surface layer of molecules. Maybe it would affect 2 layers of surface molecules, but it would would not affect the brass alloy much deeper then that. So you strip the zinc, or tin or whatever, and leave a layer of copper behind on the surface. I don’t see that causing major issues. You removed the oxidation and corrosion and now have clean track to run on.

#5

Muriatic acid is a diluted concentration of hydrochloric acid not sure of the concentration percentage). The most common containers for muriatic acid are either plastic or glass, most metals will succumb. I see no reason to remove the tie strips, although I would remove the small screws holding them, before dipping in the acid solution. However, it would be my recommendation to rinse using a solution of water and baking soda to neutralize the acid solution. The logic of removing the small screws is that the acid solution will wick in the threads and be difficult to rinse, regardless of method.

t would be helpful if those folks that use this method would include the ratio of acid to water they use so others do not have to go through the same (possibly expensive) learning curve. I will be looking forward to responses to the formula, as I have about 250 feet to clean up.

I wonder whether this will remove house paint from the ties in the process …

#6

Exactly what Bob said, no need to remove the tie strips, but you do need to rinse thoroughly, and a neutralizing solution is best.

Greg

#7

I only removed the tie strips because the majority of them needed replacing anyway. I used the acid directly out of the bottle I purchased from Lowe’s. Not sure of the concentration. The other reason I removed the tie strips was that I was using a very narrow trough to do the cleaning. All of the rails were 4-5 ft lengths.

I did all this outside in the open air with the appropriate safety equipment. I just used a hose to thoroughly wash the rails.

Doc Watson

#8

I tend to operate on the cautious side of things. Muriatic acid straight out of the pool supply bottle is 31.5% (according to a pool forum). I usually cut mine 4:1 for cleaning purposes. Be careful when mixing, it generates a fair amount of heat in the mixing process. Diluting will also make it easier to neutralize it after wash.

The safety components need to be chemical rubber gloves (not the ones you buy at Walmart for washing dishes) and safety glasses as a bare minimum. A rubber apron and rubber boots would be advisable as well. And just for additional safety, a garden hose with a shower nozzle to immediately rinse off with should anything go drastically wrong.

This may seem like paranoia, until you meet someone who has experienced chemical burns.

#9

Once upon a time, a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away… Just as we were taking in our lines to go on deployment, a young man unexpectedly came aboard as my junior Hospital Corpsman. My repeated requests finally crossed the fairy godmother’s desk. He was young, and as I came to find out, fairly inexperienced, despite him being a trained operating room technician from Naval Hospital Bethesda, MD. He said he was moonlighting at the hospital that took care of Reagan, and served on the surgical team. You can see why I might think he was experienced.

I told you that story so I can tell you this one.

The first task I gave him was to sterilize some surgical packs in our field sterilizer. He used Normal Saline. That’s right, salt water. Gunked everything up. I had to field strip the sterilizer to clean it. I got a large pan from the galley, and a package of instant fruit flavored drink, otherwise known as “bug juice.” I soaked the brass parts overnight in the bug juice, and by the next morning, they were as clean as the day they were made. A quick rinse I fresh water, reassembled, the sterilizer was good as new.

The scary thing is that we drink that stuff. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

#10

Okay, so I guess I didn’t stumble on anything new and I’m glad to see that others (or at least one other- Doc Watson) has used this method to clean nasty track.

So, is it safe to say that this would be a great alternative to using a Scotch Brite pad and scrubbing rail routinely? Especially for those of us with large layouts. I’m thinking a pad dampened with muriatic acid on the end of a pole sander, every other week (or as needed). It would certainly speed up the process of track cleaning. What do you think?

-Kevin.

#11

I don’t know. Its an acid, so its etching the surface and removing some material. I think that a sanding pad to remove the surface gunk and oxidation would be better in regular use, and the acid for the really bad corrosion that the sanding pad cant cut through.

Steve, I though you navy guys used Ketchup to clean brass.

#12

dieseldude . said:

I don’t think I would use the word “better.” Maybe, more like… “AMAZING!!!” Or perhaps, “INCREDIBLE!!!” All I did was soak up a small amount of muriatic acid on a paper towel (and yes, I did wear gloves and safety glasses), and wipe down the rail. All the corrosion just came off. No waiting. No rubbing. Instant gratification. Now, the one thing I did notice is that the rail ends that I cleaned with the Tarn X were yellow/brassy colored. The complete 6 foot rail that I cleaned (effortlessly, mind you) with the muriatic acid was definitely copper colored when finished.

So, I have to ask, “Does this resulting copper color mean anything- Good or bad?” Did the muriatic acid etch or alter the brass rail adversely? Will this method of cleaning brass rail adversely affect plated train wheels? Does muriatic acid affect plastic ties (it does come in a plastic bottle)? Any chemists/metalergists out there?

If there are no negative long or short term effects, I think I may have found a better way to routinely clean brass track. Take a pole sander with a sponge or a piece of cloth on the end, lightly moisten it with some muriatic acid (available at Home Depot, pool stores, etc), and walk around the layout. No scrubbing required.

Your thoughts.

-Kevin.

It turns copper colored because the zinc in the alloy has sacrificed itself to the acid. While this is good for short term conductivity, in the long run, I would think that maybe the copper surface will now oxidize faster because the zinc that was protecting it is gone.

There is one place where this does become a “saving grace.” If you use direct burial cable (Malibu wire), it gets a surface oxidation than makes it impossible to solder after several years. You can scrape it down to the copper, or use an acid/vinegar to remove this coating making the wire easy to solder.

#13

When thinning the acid remember this; Always do like you oughter, add the acid to the water!

Safety First!

John

#14

Todd Brody said:

It turns copper colored because the zinc in the alloy has sacrificed itself to the acid. While this is good for short term conductivity, in the long run, I would think that maybe the copper surface will now oxidize faster because the zinc that was protecting it is gone.

Good point. So that’s one of those “long term affects” that might be bad. I wonder how Doc’s rail has faired over the years after the acid treatment? Doc? Do they oxidize faster? Or need to be cleaned more often?

I only cleaned one piece of rail with the acid, so I guess I could monitor it and see. It might take quite some time to tell.

-Kevin.

#15

Kevin,

I can honestly say that I can’t see any difference in the acid cleaned and any other section of track on my layout. When I get some time later I’ll take a photo of the two together. I lightly clean my track about once a month and that seems to be good enough. I run mostly track power and have only 2 power connections to my outside loop that is 50x25 ft. I use all Split Jaw connectors. Haven’t seen any issues with conductivity. And to reiterate, the acid cleaned sections have been in operation for 10 years.

Doc Watson

#16

Don Watson said:

Kevin,

I can honestly say that I can’t see any difference in the acid cleaned and any other section of track on my layout. When I get some time later I’ll take a photo of the two together. I lightly clean my track about once a month and that seems to be good enough. I run mostly track power and have only 2 power connections to my outside loop that is 50x25 ft. I use all Split Jaw connectors. Haven’t seen any issues with conductivity. And to reiterate, the acid cleaned sections have been in operation for 10 years.

Doc Watson

Great information, Doc.

So, just to be clear- When you say that you “lightly clean your track about once a month,” do mean that you use muriatic acid to lightly clean it once a month (perhaps on a sponge or something) or are you using something else (Scotch-Brite pad, etc…)?

Thanks, again.

-Kevin.

#17

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#18

No, once I’ve given the track an acid cleaning I only use acid to clean the rail ends if I decide to lift out a section to address an issue.

I use a combination of ScotchBrite pad and/or my recently acquired track cleaning car for maintenance.

Doc

#19

Avoid using anything harder than the track, like steel wool or sand paper, to do the cleaning, as they will leave tiny crevasses in the track that will collect gunk.

#20

I think that pretty much anything you do is going to leave some tiny crevasses in the track. Even the act of just running trains will create micro-/macro-arcing that leaves little pits in the brass.

Ever seen the “zebra stripes” from using an LGB track cleaner engine?