Large Scale Central

Track choices

Track and Trestles
#1

Having done a search here and at other sites, I’d like to hear the opinions of some of the people here. What is your preference for track metal, and why? As far as I can see, each has it advantages and disadvantages, but I’d like to know more.

Aluminium: cheap, excellent conductor, but cannot solder, has a “poor memory”, and non-conductive corrosion.
Brass: medium price, readily available, solders well, but corrosion.
Nickel silver: solders well, corrosion not a problem, but expensive and relatively soft.
Stainless steel: robust, corrosion resistant, but expensive, difficult to work with, and cannot solder.

What is the relative importance of these points, and are there other pros and cons?

Thanks.

#2

Might be a lone voice here, but my brother-in-law and I have had nickel-silver track down in the yard since 1979…

Mind you, a lot of it was not new, having been in the previous yard since 1968.

Does that answer any part of your question?

tac
Ottawa Valley GRS

#3

It helps to know how you are going to use it, before anyone can give advice.

I use Aluminium all the time and have great faith in it; but of course I don’t use track power. I also don’t have the temperature fluxtuations that someone in the desert would have. I do leave good gaps at joints to compensate for expansion, as Aluminium does expand and contract more than other metals. Never have I needed those “Expansion rails” that are on the market.
When I bought it, it was the least expensive of the lot. I use code 332. The smaller codes would not be forgiving if you are using it in a rough enviorment; although all of the smaller code metal rails are not so great out in the real world of the garden, if you have children or adults that might walk or step on the rails, not just Aluminium.

If you are stuck on the idea of track power, whether you go DCC or plain DC; I wouldn’t recomend Aluminium rail. But then: I wouldn’t recomend DCC or track power of any type outdoors, except for simple loops of track in a small garden setting.

Good luck.

#4

Kevin,

I started out with elephant-proof track aka CODE332 from a certain mfg. Having used Code70 for the same type of NG railway in HOm I was not impressed with the “way too large stuff” even at 1:22.5 scale.

Then I found Code215 brass track from a Canadian supplier, perfect profile for what I needed.
Then that profile source dried up because the place that was drawing the profile changed hands. Sooooooooo I changed to nickelsilver Llagas track (Dave TOC is the reliable source!), still using the tiestrip from the Canadian supplier.

Back when I started building in 2000, I thought nickelsilver was way too expensive. It isn’t cheap but there are definite advantages. And it should weather to a nicer tone than the brass. Brass takes a long time to weather in the local climate.

BTW there is solder out there for stainless - I like to build my own turnouts - but I haven’t found Code215 rail in stainless.

Of course the battery mafia will tell you that good alu track together with battery op is the cat’s meow. Yes it is, but it isn’t what I wanted or still want (except for snow clearing in winter).

#5

Kevin:

Track or battery power? I’ll assume track power because you would not talk about corrosion if you did not need electrical conductivity.

Where do you live? What is your priority between cost and time spent maintaining?

How often do you run? Do you care if the track is golden in color? Shiny silver?

You need to know all about yourself and your preferences and priorities first. The answer will come easily when you put these in perspective.

Regards, Greg

#6

Thanks for the thoughts so far.

My situation is that I expect to be moving within the next few years. Therefore I have no intention of putting down a permanant layout until after the move. At this stage I’m just scratchbuilding rolling stock and dreaming of the time …

I’m not sure if I’ll use battery/RC, DCC, or just plain DC. I like small locos, which makes battery power a bit of a problem. As for DCC, it sounds great except that the rate at which the electronics industry is constantly changing, I don’t know if a system I buy today will be available and/or compatible tomorrow. So at this stage my plan is to go with simple track power and the block system. I assume switches and relays will be around for a while yet.

So there it is. I want to prepare for track powered simple DC.

If you can solder SS, then that’s a big plus. Are there any disadvantages to nickel silver? I know it’s expensive, but so is stainless.

How does NS track look after a year in the garden?

BTW, I live in central Alberta. The temperature variation over a year is perhaps 80 degrees Celsius: -45 to +35.

Thanks

#7

The NS rail here , turned a dark color , almost black , overe a couple of years . Here is a pic , dark enough ?

[img/]

#8

Kevin:

That’s a good accurate list of comparisons for the commonly available rail materials.

Since you mentioned moving, and thus not wanting to put up a permanent layout, there may be another consideration: You probably want track that you can either reuse or resell in the future. Sectional track is best at meeting this requirement. Not as realistic nor as elegant as other solutions, but you can walk on it, change the layout, incorporate flex track, modify pieces, and still reuse most if not all of it on a new layout or get cash for it used if you really want or need to change to something else.

To my knowledge, true full-line sectional track and track components (turnouts, crossings, etc.) are only available in code 332. Materials are either brass or stainless steel. Both materials are easily available OTS and are fully compatible with every kind of track power, battery power, steam power, DC, DCC and R/C. The manufacturers are LGB, Aristocraft and U.S.A Trains. Many track components from these three manufacturers can be interchanged with little work.

Why the concern about soldering stainless steel? If you’re going to build track components such as frogs, points and turnouts, NS is easy to cut and solder to itself and is fully compatible with stainless steel. If the concern is hooking up wiring, or rail to rail connections, you’ll find that properly done screw connections are just fine when used on stainless steel.

You mentioned “. . . switches and relays . . .”. In general, electronics don’t do as well in the garden as inside. For example I use EZ-Aire pneumatic controls where I have turnout controls. The LGB electric switch machines worked for a time, but needed enough maintenance that they weren’t adding to my RR operating fun. I replaced them with pneumatics (virtually zero maintenance) and now only buy bare turnouts without controls, then add the EZ-Aire. Other than lighting, there is virtually no wiring required.

I use a combination of sectional and flex, mostly LGB, as that is what I started with well over 20 years ago. At that time, most of us had 1:22.5 gummi scale rolling stock with deep flanges (all that was available) and D.C. track power (just like we had done inside).

Now, my engines are all fully self-contained, battery powered, sound equipped and RCS radio contolled. Rolling stock is all 1:20.3 scale. That means I would like some ‘more to scale’ track. For my next expansion, I’ll probably go with Llagas Creek code 250 aluminum. Meanwhile, my weathered brass code 332 does the job very well!

BTW, how big and how complex do you envision your first layout? Since you’re scratch building, I assume scale look is some consideration?

Hope some of this diatribe helps!

Happy RRing,

Jerry Bowers

#9

Dennis Paulson said:
The NS rail here , turned a dark color , almost black , overe a couple of years . Here is a pic , dark enough ? [url]

[img/]

Yes Dennis, That’s what I’m hoping for too. Of course our climate here is a bit different so I’m being patient when it comes to the time frame, but as everyone knows, no hurry! The hurrider one goes the behinder one gets … or some such! Oh yeah, working in the garden today … starting on the edging of this that and another thing. Almost time to put in a retaining wall or two or three … but who’s counting? :wink: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: Between that and cleaning up … looks like I’ll be busy a few hours every day.

#10
Jerry Bowers said:
.......................

Sectional track is best at meeting this requirement. Not as realistic nor as elegant as other solutions, but you can walk on it, change the layout, incorporate flex track, modify pieces, and still reuse most if not all of it on a new layout or get cash for it used if you really want or need to change to something else.

…


OTOH the drawback is : too many cotton-picking railjoints and that is not the cat’s meow when using trackpower. The fewer joints the better!

If going for the Code332, go with the longest pieces of flextrack you can find - 10 footers sound good - use railclamps and you’ll be able to re-use all the track if you desire.

If you plan on SG in 1:29 or 1:32 have a look of what can be had in Code250; I know that some Class1 roads have tall rail but it is not quite “That tall!!!”.

Yes Kevin, decisions, decisions … :wink: :slight_smile:

BTW at one time somewhere I read that there will be Code 250 SS from a larger mfg, soon. As always it depends if “soon” is soon enough! :wink: :slight_smile:

#11

Dennis Paulson said:
The NS rail here , turned a dark color , almost black , overe a couple of years . Here is a pic , dark enough ? [url]

[img/]

Gorgeous!!! Looks like NS is the way to go. I think I knew that all along. Is that commercial track? Or hand laid? If commercial, what brand?

#12
Jerry Bowers said:
Kevin:

That’s a good accurate list of comparisons for the commonly available rail materials.

Since you mentioned moving, and thus not wanting to put up a permanent layout, there may be another consideration: You probably want track that you can either reuse or resell in the future. Sectional track is best at meeting this requirement. Not as realistic nor as elegant as other solutions, but you can walk on it, change the layout, incorporate flex track, modify pieces, and still reuse most if not all of it on a new layout or get cash for it used if you really want or need to change to something else.

You mentioned “. . . switches and relays . . .”. In general, electronics don’t do as well in the garden as inside. For example I use EZ-Aire pneumatic controls where I have turnout controls. The LGB electric switch machines worked for a time, but needed enough maintenance that they weren’t adding to my RR operating fun. I replaced them with pneumatics (virtually zero maintenance) and now only buy bare turnouts without controls, then add the EZ-Aire. Other than lighting, there is virtually no wiring required.

BTW, how big and how complex do you envision your first layout? Since you’re scratch building, I assume scale look is some consideration?

Hope some of this diatribe helps!

Happy RRing,

Jerry Bowers


Actually I’m not planning to build anything much yet, except a few dioramas that may be incorporated later. My plan is to have a mostly outdoor layout but with a bit indoors. After using LGB rail, it has never occured to me to use anything but Code 250. At this stage I’m undecided on whether to hand lay all track or use commercial. I’ve never really liked the disjointed look of commercial track with home made turnouts, but I’ve got plenty of time to make the final decision.

I’ve seen the ads in GR for air controlled switches and it seemed like a good idea. But you’re the first person I’ve heard from who has used this system, so I’m glad to hear it works well. In a past life I was an electrician and am well aware of the difficulties in maintaining good connections in the weather.

I’m hoping my eventual layout will be quite long, but not particularly complex. A lot of single track mainline with a few passing loops. Small locos mostly (except the Double Fairlie I’m just starting now and an eventual Garratt) and mostly 4-wheel freight stock. Complex operation is not the goal. I just want to sit in the back yard and watch the trains go by.

Thanks for all the advice.

#13

MICRO ENGINEERING G trak , and when I used this , I used Llagas Creek switches [ which are works of art ], and PECO switches , all 3 brands in NS , code 250 .
For track power , I really liked it , even the oxide on NS rail is conductive .
As a electrican for 45 years or so , and as a outdoor layout operator , IF , you are going to use track power , NS is the best .
You can easily solder a feeder wire to the bottom of EACH piece of rail , then create a buried ring bus completely around the track layout with EACH piece of wire soldered to the ring bus [ well 2 wires really + - ] and forget the joints except to hold the rails in alignment , And you will not have a electrical feed problem , for who knows how many years , as long as the life of the wire insulation / jacket .
Yes the NS is expensive , yes the ring bus feed is a lot of work , but have you ever heard the saying , you can pay me now or pay me later , but you are going to pay me !
A lot of us learned working in the harsh conditions of a coal burning power plant , in operation over 50 years , that you can go cheap ass now , and then be back to repair it , and then back again , and then replace it again , or you can do it right ! And it will work for years and years and years .
Its your time and money and possible enjoyment , so happy rring .

#14
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
OTOH the drawback is : too many cotton-picking railjoints and that is not the cat's meow when using trackpower. The fewer joints the better!
H.J. makes a good point regarding minimizing rail joints, especially by using the maximum length sections / pieces. That applies whether you call the track sectional or not.

But if you use track power, you have to have a rail joint / conductivity solution that works. Some leave the slip joiner and solder jumpers around every rail joint. Others report satisfactory results with the slip joiners or use a bolt on rail joiner (RailClamp). I’m certain someone out there is heliarc welding every joint!

I solved the conductivity problem by getting rid of track power, but that’s what works for me.

Since I’m battery powered, I don’t have a conductivity requirement, but my RR is built on fill (raised beds) and natural ground, trying to simulate a scaled down prototype railroad’s:

  • Construction methods: Survey & grade it.
  • Materials: Earth cuts & fills with various sizes of aggregate for fill, rip-rap & ballast.
  • Maintenance: Our 40" of annual rainfall dosn’t scale well.

I still use quite a few Hillman’s RailClamps, replacing the LGB joiner, to provide a strong mechanical structure. Otherwise, my shifting clay soil pulls the joint apart. I have a balloon track using R-3 curves. I put RailClamps on the outside rail around the loop. They made the rail stop coming apart even though the cross slope continues to move slowly, as in a natural land movement. I also use RailClamps on all six rail connections on every turnout so they can be removed easily.

Kevin: Brass rail also weathers to a dark color similar to that in Dennis’ photo. I guess I’m about to find out what happens to aluminum.

Dennis: Great shot! Is that on your RR?

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#15

Yes it was .

[img/]

[img/]

[img/] I like trains , all of em … And now , the layout looks like this … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OGKCpQces4

#16

Come on Dennis! Is it Micro Engineering track or what is it?

BTW just like there are different alloys in brass, there are also different alloys in nickelsilver. Some of them are very slow to tarnish(oxidize) i.e. the stuff we used in CH for the micro relais was slow to tarnish. But in QC one of the employment pre-requisites was nonetheless low hand perspiration. Those guys with “clammy” hands were SOL. Not getting in a sweat was a good thing! :wink: :lol:

#17

Dennis, I love your photos! They all look so realistic! Great composition too. BTW, do you use a digital camera?

#18

HJ all the non catenary pics have been when it was Micro Engineering NS track .
Since cat installed , well actually just before , it is now grossbahn rail , because of the cat pole attachment requirements , yes I went from best to worst .

Yes Ray I use a digital camera , most were shot with a Olympus D-340L , 1.3 megapixal , which has a great depth of field .
And Ray you have a awesome layout and take great photos also , looks fantastic to this flat lander .

" composition " thanks , have been a train watcher since I was a born , thanks to my father .
And no I do not even know how to mess with pics in the puter , my pics are as they are shot with the camera , of course location , location , is nice .

Share the fun !

#19

BTW LSCers,

Wouldn’t it be a good idea to add the track choices to the LSC Wiki?

And who’s the volunteer???

#20

I’ll throw my two cents in – of course you won’t come close when you buy track!
We live on the desert and went with brass. I run battery and rc and the brass darkens nicely.
The brass works well with the heat and cold we get.
Keep on scratchbuilding. You’ll never have too many buildings.