Large Scale Central

Timber forming mill

General Discussion
#1

So I found a new to me picture of the Hecla mine around 1900. One of the buildings that you only ever get a peak at in other photos is labeled on the Sandborn maps simply as “Timber Forming”. This new picture shows it a bit better. And it is not as much a building as it is a covered area where I can only assume some sort of saw is located. I was not going to model “interiors” but since this building is open I thing some representation of the mill works should be present. So it raises a couple questions for me.

One is what sort of mill works would be in use for “timber forming”. No picture I see has any raw logs so i don’t think they are milling them down from trees. I rather think they are bringing in larger timbers and then cutting them to length and possibly resawing them dimensionally. All I see in any picture is piles of timbers. So who has an idea for what kind of “Stuff” should be in this building.

Second question. In Burke there is/was an old small teepee/wigwam burner. Given its location it is entirely possible to have belonged to the Hecla but I don’t see it in pictures either. Have no idea when it was built or by which mine/mill in the area. At any rate I would like to include it in my mine complex even if it is a hypothetical. But one thing I am a bit stumped on is at the turn of the century what mechanism would have been employed to get the chips from the mill to the burner. Where cyclone blowers a thing at time?

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#2

Think shoring. Were they milling timbers to be used as shoring in the mine? Maybe, I don’t really know.

#3

The interior of mines were all braced by heavy wooden beams. Stopes, adits, shafts etc.
I assume Hecla, and all the neighboring mines used local trees for that.
What amazes me is deep in Death Valley, Ca. the mines are also beamed.
Not a harvestable tree for miles.
As to moving sawdust, most likely an auger in the tube, or belt.
I remember back in the late fifties driving thru the silver valley with my Dad, all the hillsides were bare. It was pretty ugly back then as compared to present day.

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#4

Devon,
My thoughts. Dan and John are right on, I would only add that depending on the size of the mining operation and the amount of timbering needed on a daily basis it may well have been that all the notching and cutting to length was done by hand.

As for bringing pre cut timber blanks in for sizing I think that was a pretty common practice even in that era. My step-dad hauled pre fabbed mining timbers all over the Western States from the specialty mill in Northern California, this was in the 1970’s through the 1990’s.

As for the Tee Pee burner; That type of “air cooled” burner was first introduced in 1916 by a company in Portland and the style really caught on fire you might say :smiley: By the late 1920’s they were all over the PNW. They were cheap and easy to build and almost any mill could erect their own.

#5

Thanks guys. The Hecla, actually the Star mine owned by Helca Mining Company, was one of the largest from almost day one. I believe it was the third mine developed in the valley. It was by the 1890s huge. The era I am modeling it is pretty well on its way to being gigantic.

I think Rick your are right on track. Like I said I don’t see any picture ever of raw logs and the while much of the cribbing in the area is a made from logs and also timbers, the stuff you see at the mill being made ready for shoring up the mine is all milled squared off timbers. Also you can see in the picture I posted there are stacks of milled timbers everywhere and no raw logs. So I do have to believe, as Rick suggested, they brought in pre milled timbers on rail car and the “timber forming” area was not a sawmill as much as it was just a place to make big lumber into little lumber. Notching and so forth.

So what I am guessing by this discussion and my own thoughts is that there probably was no big circular saw or band saw with a carriage. But rather a cross cut saw a kin to a chop say or radial arm saw. But I have no idea what one from that era would look like or what its called to even google it.

#6

A crosscut would be good for chopping to timber length, but some kind of rip with a carriage would be needed for sizing. (eg: a 12 x 12 x 8’) get the log down to 12 x 12.

#7

I don’t think, at least at the Hecla, at this time they were doing anything with logs. There is no photographic evidence of them milling raw logs. I a sure it was being done somewhere in the valley, had to be, they were not hauling it in from out of the state, not with forests full of old growth trees. But I just don’t think is was being done right there at the complex. I think this “operation” was simply taking 12 X 12 X 16 timbers and making 12 X 12 X 8 timbers and like what was suggested notching and cutting angles.

So I am thinking a pile of timbers and some sort of cross cut saw would be what I would need.

#8

Seems like someone posted in the last few months about an early logging camp, where sawyers pre-trimmed the logs somewhat squarely before the logs were loaded onto cars… Can’t find it though. Just my imagination?

[edit] FWIW…

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/timber-trade-history
https://algonquinforestry.on.ca/algonquin-park-history/history-logging-history/
https://ambergriscaye.com/photogallery/140727.html

#9

Cliff, that was probably the one I posted under something like “never seen this before”.
See here Early Logging & Hewing - YouTube

Devon an electric (I assume that electric power was available during your modeling era) swing saw driven from a line shaft would make a great model.
One example , although steam, is in this video of the Phillips Mill.

Click on videos and choose the first one , best of. The swing saw starts at about 8.40 in.

#10

Thanks Rick, yep, that’s what I was thinking about!

#11

Rick,

That’s an interesting question. Pete L (not to be confused with Peter T :rofl:) asked me about electricity in Burke during my era. Since my modeling era is around 1910ish it could go either way in a small hole in the wall town. But as I was pouring over some pictures I saw a pole with wire on it. It’s within the complex. I doubt they had communication wire (telephone/telegraph) between buildings so I have to assume it’s power. So I am going with the assumption that in MY Burke during MY era that power is available.

So I will look into it. Thank you.

#12

Watched the video and regardless of what was actually there I love that steam powered swing saw. Since MY Burke is not meant to be an accurate prototype of a specific year but rather a melting pot of 20 or 30 years of loose history, a steam powered swing saw is the ticket. Gives me an excuse to add a steam engine to drive the belt. The main mine building did have a steam power plant at least at some point. So it’s perfectly plausible. Or I might just add a vertical boiler just for fun.

Thanks for the help. It is enough information to satisfy my imagination and that is all that matters.

#13

Glad you can use the info. That saw looks pretty mild in the video but that son of buck is scary as heck when you have a hold of that handle. But that was/is just cutting trim scraps to fed the boiler I would think if cutting 12 by or larger timbers it would tame the speed and swing arc some.

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#14

Stimson and Potlatch had timber lands all over that area. (Still do).
The mines probably did contract a mill to pre-cut their timbers. Makes sense.
Probably in Coeur d’ Alene. I can’t think of a mill in the Valley, but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t one.

#15

There was at least one saw mill, not a large one at the turn of the century. By 1900 bofh UP and NP had a branch line to Burke. So timbers could have easily been brought in on a flat car from either Spokane/CDA or Missoula.