Large Scale Central

ties for hand laid track

Track and Trestles
#1

I am considering doing hand laid track and figure it will be 3 years before I complete everything. I don’t want to have to start track replacement as soon as I finish. So what material to use for ties?

Does anybody have experience with composite ties outdoors? In particular Switchcrafters.Do they decay from UV and do the spikes push out over time? I know that if I get long enough spikes to reach thru and then cinch they’ll stay.

Another club member used cedar 10-12 years ago and while they have not rotted they now have the strength of balsa.

All comments and suggestion welcome

Butch

#2

We don’t have creosote, any more, so the next, best thing is soaking the ties in used motor oil for several days, then wiping them dry and letting them air dry for several more days. Then use at least two inches of crushed rock ballast. That should be good for ten years. Nothing lasts forever.

#3

Cedar is probably the best wood for ties.

#4

Steve Featherkile said:

We don’t have creosote, any more, so the next, best thing is soaking the ties in used motor oil for several days,

Don’t forget to wipe your eyes and face with your oily hands!

#5

Butch,

Switchcrafters sell composite ties as well as switch kits and a handy looking spiker. I haven’t used any of their products but I think I would go with them if I was hand laying. http://www.switchcrafters.com/ez-catalog/X381875/31

Patrick

#6

I support Patrick Kramer, I bought some Switchcrafters Ties and the Spiker and liked both. I for one would not do individual ties and hand lay track, did that on my HO layout and that was enough! But, switches are another thing, that is why I tried them as I had three or four 332 brass switches that I wanted to mount and though I would try it out. Worked fine and I like it. Give it a try. Maybe some one in your area will have a set up you can try out.

Paul

#7

1st choice: Western Red Cedar

2nd: Tamarack (Larch)

3rd: Ponderosa Pine

#8

I don’t hand lay track but I do make my own switches and use Spanish Cedar for the ties. A 2x4 x 4’ piece goes a long way. Then once a year give’m a bath in boiled linseed oil.

http://www.hearnehardwoods.com/hardwoods/exotic_hardwoods/exotic_wood/spanish_cedar_lumber/spanish_cedar_wood.html

#9

What happened to redwood - it was superior to cedar when I started laying outdoor track? I used to buy ties in bags from Stretch Manley, who said he used to rip old redwood junk he found lying around.

I gave up hand spiking plain track - too much like hard work. Switches are fun though.

#10

Redwood fence boards can be cut up for hundreds of ties. Plus, if you save the sawdust, you can make very nice corrals by putting down about one inch of it. Bugs won’t eat it, and weeds won’t grow thru it.

Here in California, redwood fence boards are common. Maybe not in your area. I’ve found that cedar rots in adobe.

#11

Real Redwood is no longer available - the remaining stands are all protected. There is a wood being sold as Redwood. I think it is a variety of Red Cedar. About 2 years ago I was working on a sign job where we took down a big wooden sign - about 40" x 120" and 3" thick. We cut it in chunks to fit in the dumpster. As I tossed a chunk in I realized it was Redwood. Just as I decided to dumpster dive for it the garbage truck arrived - bummer!

I only have one hand laid section on my RR - a long bridge. I used 19mm Foamed PVC Board cut into ties then spray painted. It has been out almost three years now with no sign of any issues.

#12

Redwood is still available commercially, but I suspect that it is very spendy. I think that Jon is right about the stuff that is sold as “redwood” in the bigbox stores.

Redwood Lumber and Supply Company is located in the San Francisco Bay area. I imagine that they aren’t cheap.

#13

Steve- I’m no expert, just repeating what my local lumber expert told me when I tried to buy Redwood from him. It may be an East Coast thing, but he is old-school and remembers when it was plentiful. According to him, you can’t buy that stuff anywhere any more.

Mahogany is similar. It is impossible to buy the Mahogany that was being sold in the 1930’s and 40’s today, yet the furniture companies still make “Mahogany” furniture. It’s a similar wood, just not the original.

Again - not trying to argue - I personally don’t have any expertise.

EDIT: After looking at your link, I think what my lumber guy is referring to is the Old Growth Redwood. It just may be possible that the characteristics of wood that began life 500 years ago are just a bit different from that that began life 50 or so years ago in a renewable forest.

#14

Here in Northern Virginia, it does not seem to matter whether I use cedar, redwood, or composite. The spikes pop up.

I definitely recommend the spiking tool from Switchcrafters - it helps a LOT.

But, think twice times a hundred before you go hand laying track. I’ve only hand laid on trestles and switches, but I have to go out every year and pound the spikes back in.

Alternatively, you may consider some method that bends the spike over after it is in the tie, but I don’t know how you would ever accomplish that for your main line.

#15

Quit using spikes and start using Screws.

#16

Well, assuming that your pockets are really deep there is always http://www.redwoodsalvagesales.com or http://www.onlinelumberstore.com.

#17

Jon Radder said:
Big Snip

EDIT: After looking at your link, I think what my lumber guy is referring to is the Old Growth Redwood. It just may be possible that the characteristics of wood that began life 500 years ago are just a bit different from that that began life 50 or so years ago in a renewable forest.

Jon, I agree with your guy, the old growth stuff is long gone, except perhaps for some rare recycled stuff, or maybe some sunken logs from long ago. The rings on the old growth stuff is very tight, compared to anything that you can get, today. I have a redwood porch that I am having to repair, that was built in 1984, and even that stuff is much better than can be purchased, today.

#18

Steve Featherkile said:

We don’t have creosote, any more, so the next, best thing is soaking the ties in used motor oil for several days, then wiping them dry and letting them air dry for several more days. Then use at least two inches of crushed rock ballast. That should be good for ten years. Nothing lasts forever.

I’m getting started on a Y swithch and am going to use this method. I’ll post a thread on the ties and switch. The ties will come out of thier 48 hour soak tonight.

#19

If you’re going to hand spike your ties, (a) pre-drill the holes, and (b) if possible, use spikes that are longer than the ties are thick.

Pre-drilling’s a ruddy pain in the butt in the beginning, but it greatly reduces the spikes being pushed out by the ties as they swell with moisture. (It also makes pushing the spikes in a whole lot easier.) Making the spikes longer than the ties almost guarantees they’ll stay in place. Spikes are pushed out by the wood swelling against the pointed end of the spike. If that’s below the tie, the wood will swell around the shaft of the spike, but there’s no sloped surface for it to push against, so they stay in place.

If you’re really adventurous and want a 100% foolproof way to keep spikes from popping out, use staples. (Not commercial ones, but ones you bend from wire.) Dad and I used 1/16" aluminum welding rod when we first did our track in 1980. (He paid my sister and I a penny a staple to bend ‘em. You can bend a lot of staples during Saturday morning cartoons.) You’re going to need a good guide to make sure the holes are drilled such that the rail is kept in gauge, but that’s easy to build. I’ve got a 4’ long bridge deck I need to build this winter, and will probably be resurrecting that method.

As for the wood, I can get “redwood” out here in Colorado, though it’s nothing like the old-growth redwood dad got for his ties 35 years ago. Look through the pieces for a really tight grain. (And keep your ears open for neighbors tearing down old decks or throwing away old picnic tables and lawn chairs.)

Later,

K

#20

Kevin Strong said:

Spikes are pushed out by the wood swelling against the pointed end of the spike.

&

If you’re really adventurous and want a 100% foolproof way to keep spikes from popping out, use staples.

Very interesting point. (pun intended) In 5 years in this hobby now (with lots of time reading forums) I have never heard that idea, but it makes sense.

Also can you explain the orientation of the “staple” in the tie and on the rail?