Large Scale Central

The Pembroke & Cheltenham High Desert Railroad: Planning

My backyard is on a slope, and the more I stand at the bottom of that slope and look up the more I want to lay down a garden railroad that can negotiate that approximately 7% grade. That’s the essential challenge, throw a railroad up that hill!

Here is what I know I want so far:

  • All rolling stock (and everything else meant to be to scale) will be 1:32 scale. The plan is for the equipment to have Southern Pacific livery from about 1950 (allowing both late steam and early diesel locomotives).
  • The motive power will be R/C battery-powered electricity to simplify track construction, wiring and maintenance.
  • Accuracy in grades and radiuses will be maintained throughout the layout. Maximum grades will be 2.5%, while the minimum radius will be 60 inches.
  • Multiple trains (at least two, possibly three) should be able to be run simultaneously without operator intervention.
  • I am not very interested in putting up buildings, especially as just about anything I would want in 1:32 scale would have to be homemade. But realistic bridges and trestles are fascinating.
  • Reno features pretty violent weather. It doesn’t get nearly as cold here as it does in the Midwest or New England, but ferocious wind and rain storms are not unusual. I intend for the railroad to stand up to the worst of the Reno climate.

I will not know whether any of this will even be achievable until after I have had the property surveyed (which will be necessary in any case for the planned construction of a separate workshop building). That won’t happen for a couple months at the soonest. In the meantime, I want to conduct as much research as possible to work out what it will take to execute the plan.

Background

Reno was established in 1868 in Truckee Meadows as the Central Pacific swept down the eastern slope of the Sierra Nevada along the Truckee River gorge before continuing through the Forty Mile Desert and on to its meeting with the Union Pacific at Promontory Point the following year. Reno’s sister city of Sparks was founded in 1905 after the Southern Pacific, the Central Pacific’s successor railroad, moved the division point there from Wadsworth, 30 miles to the northeast. The metropolitan area of Truckee Meadows has always had a strong railroad heritage (a common nickname for Sparks is “Rail City”).

I moved to the Reno area in the middle of 2016 and bought my house in Hidden Valley, on the western slope of the Virginia Range, last spring. My half-acre lot overlooks the entire Truckee Meadows valley. The transcontinental railroad continues to run through the middle of Truckee Meadows and I can hear the wailing of the trains at all hours. My office is on the south bank of the Truckee River near the center of Reno, and the passing trains are visible from our loading dock.

You can’t get away from the railroad here; it is woven into the fabric of the town. Until a decade ago, the right of way literally ran through the center of Reno’s downtown, with many grade crossings; today the trains pass through a trench that was dug about twenty or thirty feet below downtown street level, but they are back on the surface by the time they reach my office a couple miles east of downtown.

The huge Southern Pacific railroad repair shops, built in 1904, still stand in Sparks and the building is visible from Interstate 80. A forty-stall roundhouse, the world’s largest, was erected nearby, but unfortunately was demolished at the close of the steam age in the late 1950s. I thought about modeling the repair shops, but a 1:32 scale model of the building would have a 10½ by 4 foot footprint and be close to 2 feet tall! I can’t find the dimensions of the roundhouse, but modeling it would be an even more daunting project in any case.

The rolling stock of today, with blocky locomotives and intermodal cars, leaves me cold. I am nostalgic for the streamlined diesels of my early youth, when I rode the Santa Fe in pre-Amtrak days along the Pacific shoreline from Santa Ana to San Diego. I never saw a working steam locomotive, of course, but the ones I find most attractive are those from the 1920s and later, when the technology reached its zenith. So I settled on an era for my layout of about mid-century, when sleek new diesels shared the rails with the last of the great steam locomotives. The Southern Pacific livery is a tribute to the railroad that served Reno and built Sparks, and that was also responsible for so much of the development of the far west.

Home lot and layout

The space at the top of the hill can’t be used for anything else because there’s a septic field underneath. I can’t build anything permanent there or plant any trees. A garden railroad is not a bad use of the space.

The top of the hill is about seven feet higher than the lawn at the southwest corner of the yard, and it is about 100 feet from the edge of the lawn to the top of the hill, for a 7% grade. I have about fifteen to twenty feet of width to work with in making it up that grade.

Home lot and layout

I envision two phases:

  1. The backyard phase will be layout and construction of the main lines in the backyard, running between the lower yard (the western lawn) and the upper yard (the eastern septic field). This layout will feature a spur at the western edge of the lower loop that will eventually connect to:
  2. The front yard phase, which will simply be a single or dual line running along the western edge of the property line into the front yard, where it will loop around and return. Much of this loop will be along a curved trestle a few feet from the street at the northwest corner of the lot.

I plan to use the ladder method of roadbed construction.

There is lots of space at the eastern end of the yard above the septic field, much less space down at the western end, which is dominated by a lawn. Though the railroad will encroach on this lawn, I don’t want to actually run tracks on the lawn because that will make it harder to maintain both the lawn and the railroad (that is, a chunk will be taken from the existing lawn to accommodate the railroad, including re-routing of irrigation lines).

The layout will feature a small yard running north-south in approximately the center of the backyard which will be covered for the storage and recharging of trains. The mainline ascending the hill will run over or under the access to this yard. Eventually, the yard will be replaced by a bench against the western interior wall of a 600 square foot workshop that is to be built in the backyard at the end of the driveway.

Operations

I am not actually that interested in operating the railroad in a realistic manner. The main challenge is in the design and construction of the line. I would like the trains to run as automatically and easily as possible. I plan to get some of the neighborhood children involved in the railroad once it’s operational as I suspect they will enjoy running the trains more than I will.

Still, there will be sidings and at least one yard for the storage of rolling stock. And if the kids insist we might build a small town with a depot at the top of the hill at the eastern end of the lot.

Questions

While I am waiting for the lot survey and working out the actual layout of the line, I have a lot of questions about how to approach it:

  • Is maintaining a strict 1:32 scale practical? I see there isn’t a lot of rolling stock available in this scale and almost no buildings. How much work will I have to do to convert the 1:32 locomotives I do find to battery-powered R/C? BTW, I don’t anticipate collecting a lot of locomotives, maybe three or four at the most.
  • What kind of track do I want to use? I think I have settled on type 250 rails, but do I want sectional or flex track? I am pretty sure I don’t want to make my own track, though I anticipate doing so for trestles. I am also pretty sure I don’t want to make my own switches.
  • I still need to work out the details of the ladder roadbed. I think I know what materials I will use (PVC pipe as posts supporting PVC planks), but do the posts need to be embedded in concrete?
  • What about running electrical power along the line for lights and switches? I am thinking about running PVC conduit all along the rails for this purpose. This would make it easier to add additional circuits later if desired by fishing wire through the conduit (or maybe just fill the conduit with spare wire when it’s put down).
  • Oh, and how the hell do switches work anyway? I bought and read a copy of The Large-Scale Model Railroading Handbook by Robert Schleicher, but that wasn’t too clear on how to set up the switches. I see there are pneumatic systems. Are people using these? Are they better than stepper motor or solenoid switches?

First of all, welcome to Large Scale Central. We have a good bunch of folks, here.

So, I’ll try to answer your questions… answers in blue.

  • Is maintaining a strict 1:32 scale practical? I see there isn’t a lot of rolling stock available in this scale and almost no buildings. How much work will I have to do to convert the 1:32 locomotives I do find to battery-powered R/C? BTW, I don’t anticipate collecting a lot of locomotives, maybe three or four at the most.

If you plan to run 1:32, you will be limited pretty much to two manufacturers, Accucraft and Mike’s Train House, and their selection is spotty, at best. For Locomotives, I don’t think that you will find Plug’n’Play for R/C in either, but it can be done. There are a lot of folks here that can help guide you in wiring them. You didn’t mention sound. I run 1:29 because of the available selection, though that is decreased with the demise of Aristocraft. There are many live steam locomotives available in 1:32, if that tickles your fancy.

  • What kind of track do I want to use? I think I have settled on type 250 rails, but do I want sectional or flex track? I am pretty sure I don’t want to make my own track, though I anticipate doing so for trestles. I am also pretty sure I don’t want to make my own switches.

Code 250 is a good choice, especially in aluminum, since you are going to use battery/RC. As the aluminum begins to corrode, it gets a “tooth” in the railhead that improves traction. There are several manufacturers for Code 250 aluminum track, Llagas Creek Railways, and Sunset Valley come to mind, though there are others. Both make turnouts in various sizes. Flex track is probably the best to use as it is more "flexible."

  • I still need to work out the details of the ladder roadbed. I think I know what materials I will use (PVC pipe as posts supporting PVC planks), but do the posts need to be embedded in concrete?

Posts do not need to be embeded in concrete. Cut the end that is in the ground flat to avoid frost heave.

  • What about running electrical power along the line for lights and switches? I am thinking about running PVC conduit all along the rails for this purpose. This would make it easier to add additional circuits later if desired by fishing wire through the conduit (or maybe just fill the conduit with spare wire when it’s put down).

I would find couduit to be a royal PITA. Just use the 12 gauge stranded wire made for outdoor lighting. It is designed to be either buried, or on the surface. You can find them in various number of wires.

  • Oh, and how the hell do switches work anyway? I bought and read a copy of The Large-Scale Model Railroading Handbook by Robert Schleicher, but that wasn’t too clear on how to set up the switches. I see there are pneumatic systems. Are people using these? Are they better than stepper motor or solenoid switches?

All my turnouts are hand thrown. This gives me the opportunity to inspect the turnout with each use. Unless you are going to elevate your railroad (you didn’t say) you run the risk of getting rocks and dirt in the points. Nothing like having a turnout not fully closed to ruin your day, not to mention your locomotive.

Again, welcome to LSC, you don’t have to be crazy to hank out here, but it sure helps.

WOW

I see you just jotted down a quick " Hello " all I’m new…(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

Welcome to the insanity.There are a lot of us here …

Ray Dunakin did just what you want to do , Hopefully he chimes in… Again welcome!

Sean

First off Mitch… Welcome Aboard !! The gang here, will be glad to answer just about any question. BUT!! Every one has their own opinion on whats best. and you will have to decide on whats best for your Pike.

My pike is likewise a desert RR, and so I have a little to no “garden” on my pike.

I do use pneumatic controllers for my switches, and they are the best for me, ( I make my own ) others will argue the point.

I use SS track, and DCC, plus Analogue DC track power, so I can host visiting engines. My track free floats on ballest, to handle the summer heat expansion.

Dave

There is another 1:32 solution, Piko has 1:32 rolling stock, the boxcar, hopper, etc are 1:32.

Your aluminum rail won’t corrode, the right term is oxidize, and aluminum oxide on the surface of your rail will give you some of the best traction possible.

(your aluminum rail could corrode if you exposed it to salt air or an alkaline environment)

By the way welcome!

I do have one question, your septic field is 7 feet ABOVE your house? I’ve always heard s**t runs downhill (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)… just unusual from my experience in building.

I use pneumatic switches and DCC and can cut in DC track power if desired and have a level loop for steamers.

I have about 750 pages on my web site, mostly LS trains, here’s one on pneumatic switches: https://elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=91&Itemid=116

Greg

Ummmm…, Greg, oxidation is also called corrosion. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)

hmmm, as far, as i understood…

while oxidation is more specific - it needs oxigen to dissolve metal - corrosion is more generic. it describes any type of "loosing material and/or material integrity.

Welcome aboard!

When I built my railroad, the only space I had was a long, narrow strip of land on a steep slope. My slope was much too steep to get the tracks all the way to the top of the hill, or even close. But I was able to squeeze in a fair amount of track. I had to dig out a lot of the hillside to create tunnels, and then build the “mountains” over them.

My mountains are made of real rock, often supported by a foundation of concrete blocks. (Alternately, there are ways to create artificial rock structures using cement.)

I have photos of the early stages of construction here:

http://www.raydunakin.com/Site/IRR_Construction.html

Here are a few recent photos taken during our February open house:

There is a pathway across the middle level of the layout, which is hidden from view when seen from the front:

No Steve, corrosion and oxidation are not exactly the same.

In aluminum, the process of anodizing is done by oxidation.

So anodized aluminum is corroded?

Different terms… yes oxidized steel might be considered corrosion, but corrosion is normally associated with chemicals helping the process or electrical currents.

If you have corrosive chemicals on your rails, you got problems. If you have air on your rails, then you are probably on planet earth.

In this case, I was trying to point out beneficial oxidation, helping traction, and bare aluminum oxidizes in the atmosphere. Corrosion is not wanted nor encouraged.

Greg

Welcome, Mitch.

There used to be a Large Scaler that lived near Reno, but he passed away quite a few years ago. I just rebuilt my layout a few years back, but it’s pretty flat. However Rays is close to what you plan do. I would pick his brain …(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Mitch, welcome aboard! I live in Martinez down in the Bay Area (also, for a time, a stop on the Transcontinental Railroad). My father lived in Sparks for awhile during the 1940s and I have always loved visiting. Last time I was there, we took the train from Martinez through Sacramento and on up to Reno. One of the really neat features of that trip were the docents from the California State Railroad Museum narrating stories of the history and building of the line. I also loved Harrah’s auto museum.

You may already know this, but there are a ton of really active large scalers down the hill in the Sacramento Valley, Redwood, and Bay Area clubs. I’m a member of BAGRS but have visited layouts throughout the other two areas.

My layout is currently being reconstructed. It is on the small side, with a good portion of it flat, but also with a similar hillside. I am very interested in fine scale modeling the city of Martinez around the turn of the 20th century in the flatter spaces, and in later phases some kind of mining or other industry in the hills. Here is my take on your questions:

  • Is maintaining a strict 1:32 scale practical? I see there isn’t a lot of rolling stock available in this scale and almost no buildings. How much work will I have to do to convert the 1:32 locomotives I do find to battery-powered R/C? BTW, I don’t anticipate collecting a lot of locomotives, maybe three or four at the most.

I model in 1:24 scale, partly because I could not find as many resources in the smaller 1:29 or 1:32 scales, and 1:24 was a happy medium for someone who is passionate about fine scale modeling but by no means a rivet-counter, either. Are you interested in scratch building? If so, I would say a strict practice in whatever scale you desire is practical.

  • What kind of track do I want to use? I still need to work out the details of the ladder roadbed.

My layout is Micro-Engineering Code 250 aluminum flex track. I buy it in 6-foot strips and assemble the railroad tie strips in order to maintain more flexibility in design. I had initially planned to hand-lay the ties individually with tie plates and the whole nine yards but very quickly gave up on that idea – at least for the entire layout. I am making my own switches, however, and I might do some hand-laying in certain more prominent locations. We’ll see how that goes, but it sounds like that is not something you’re particularly interested in.

  • I think I know what materials I will use (PVC pipe as posts supporting PVC planks), but do the posts need to be embedded in concrete?

Like Dave’s, my layout is free-floated on ballast. I dig a trench about 4-6 inches deep, fill it with pea gravel, lay the track and then finish it off with crusher fines. I also use landscaping U-hooks (I think that’s what they’re called) to hold the track roughly in place. Again, the reason for this is to allow for temperature expansion. I would assume that Reno has a much larger temperature range than the Bay Area. However, as far as my hillsides, I may need to go with something a bit more secure. Again, Ray Dunakin is the go-to guy here.

  • What about running electrical power along the line for lights and switches? I am thinking about running PVC conduit all along the rails for this purpose. This would make it easier to add additional circuits later if desired by fishing wire through the conduit (or maybe just fill the conduit with spare wire when it’s put down).

I am in the process of thinking that one through. I am planning on being strictly battery-powered and wireless, but how that is going to look is still up for debate, whether I control the trains with AirWire, or a Blutooth device or what. I do like the idea of having some PVC layed down at the outset because if it is ever needed it’s a whole lot easier doing it early on than later. Proximity and ease of access to peripheral devices – lights, et al. – and their power sources is also a consideration.

  • Oh, and how the hell do switches work anyway? I bought and read a copy of The Large-Scale Model Railroading Handbook by Robert Schleicher, but that wasn’t too clear on how to set up the switches. I see there are pneumatic systems. Are people using these? Are they better than stepper motor or solenoid switches?

I’m also going with pneumatic. I believe there is a recent series of articles by Kevin Strong in Garden Railways on switches, say, early 2016 or so.

Thanks for the welcome, guys.

Yeah, I’m sensing there isn’t a lot for 1:32. but there might be enough. It will be a while before I start acquiring rolling stock, so I’ll see what I can find.

Live steam might be something I’m interested in down the line . . .

It’s starting to look like I’m going to need flex track because of all the non-standard radiuses I’ll have, especially as for much of the layout the right of way will have three different tracks. So if the inside track has a standard radius of, say, 60 inches, I’ll need non-standard radiuses for the outer two tracks. So sectional track isn’t looking like it’s gonna work.

I guess I’ll need to work out how to bend track.

Oh, my back hurts just thinking about that . . .

I don’t know why it’s above the tank instead of under the lawn, since now that corner of the yard is almost useless. I bought the house from the original owner and he told me the septic field is like 20 feet below the surface of the hill, so it’s definitely running downhill. I don;t know exactly where it is but should get a good idea when I meet with the county engineering department. It’s important because I want to put up that workshop back there and I need to know whether and where I can put it.

I might have to check that out, but as a California refugee I try to stay on my side of the mountains as much as possible!

I am, to some extent. The issue is time.

My layout will be far too large to hand-assembly track, but I can see I’ll have to learn more about tie strips and how to use them.

I was not aware of a temperature related issues with the ladder method. I like it because I can completely control the location and grade without regard to the underlying topography. I am not sure free floating is compatible with the crazy rainstorms we sometimes get here. But we definitely have big temperature swings, especially in the summer. One of the nice things about the high desert is even if it’s a 100 degrees during the day in the summer, it will still drop down to about 55 or 60 degrees every night.

I’m hearing a lot about pneumatic so far . . .

Ray, I need to learn more about how you get your trains up that shallow hill. I had hoped to maintain a “scale” maximum grade of 2.5%, but I can’t seem to make that happen. Here’s a layout with an unattractive zig-zag up the hill:

With all those zig-zags it’s still a 4% grade! I don’t see how I can do any better without a Tehachapi Loop (though I have the space for one, I just don’t think it would look very attractive, though I suppose I could be convinced otherwise, maybe). Even a Tehachapi Loop probably wouldn’t get me down to 2.5%

Anyway, I have a lot more planning to do. Thanks again for all the ideas and suggestions. I’m going to maintain this thread as a sort of build thread.

Elevate your track 4 feet down below…

have a small loop down below, but most of your track above, including a loop so you can run trains unattended.

Greg

As for bending track, I would highly recommend a dual railbender. You simply use an ironing type motion and your track is suddenly curved. Its doesn’t get any easier then that. I use code 332 stainless, and its a bear to bend, but with the dual railbender its a snap. With aluminum rails it would be even easier to use. And using a proper railbender, you don’t get kinks and out of gauge bends in the track.

I did what Greg suggests. I made a rather large fill at the bottom of my set up, to keep my grades at around 2.5% And grade is grade, so the comment about “scale maximum grade” went past me.

Maybe he meant “prototype grade”… that would be close to the maximum grade class 1 railroads normally use.

Greg

Mitch,

Here is a link to a guy here in Southern California with a railroad very similar to what you want. ALL Southern Pacific freight and he uses diesels, no steam. I’ve seen the layout many times and its beautiful. This link should get you to his site. Includes photos and text on how he designed the layout, did his grades and actually built the railroad. He uses the ladder system and shows how he made the ladder system.

Link: http://www.morningglowrr.com/

Good luck with your build and welcome to the forum.

Mitch Barrie said:

Ray, I need to learn more about how you get your trains up that shallow hill.

My track plan is a DOGBONE loop, folded into an overlapping Z. Here’s a link to the track plan:

http://www.raydunakin.com/IRRWebfiles/Trackplan2.jpg

Edit: Fixed the error originally inserted by autocorrect.

Thanks, Ray.

Yeah, I’m gonna need loops. I worked this out at lunchtime:

That goes from 0 feet at lower left to nearly seven feet at far right, all at 2.5% grade, so that gets me up the hill. Most of the interesting part of the layout will be on the hill.

Not the final layout, but at least now I know how I’m going to get there.

How much clearance are you allowing? Don’t forget roadbed and track …

One thing to consider is we are social group and running on other’s layouts is part of the deal, allowing for the larger scales is a consideration.

When the late Chuck N. brought his mallet here, I had to break out my chain saw to make some hasty clearance!(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

Welcome to our ‘tribe’!

While you are here there will be a general question you are sure to encounter;

Is it done yet?

Welcome aboard.

Greg Elmassian said:

No Steve, corrosion and oxidation are not exactly the same.

In aluminum, the process of anodizing is done by oxidation.

So anodized aluminum is corroded?

Different terms… yes oxidized steel might be considered corrosion, but corrosion is normally associated with chemicals helping the process or electrical currents.

If you have corrosive chemicals on your rails, you got problems. If you have air on your rails, then you are probably on planet earth.

In this case, I was trying to point out beneficial oxidation, helping traction, and bare aluminum oxidizes in the atmosphere. Corrosion is not wanted nor encouraged.

Greg

Here is more than I want to know about the corrosion of aluminum. It occurs in the presence of oxygen, or water, which has (gasp) oxygen as part of its molecule. I, too, was pointing out the benefit of the tooth. (https://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)(https://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)(https://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)