History channel did a series called “the Men Who Built America” for the RR angle it covers Vanderbilt and Scott but in addition it covers Carnegie, Rockefeller, Morgan, Edison, Ford. I am only part way through episode 3 of four episodes. It is a little theatrical but very good. Shows the ties and connections between these mega men. Its available for streaming on Netflix
I’m reading a book about Fredrick Billings and his role with the NP. Interesting book… And he was actively involved in conservation and Yellowstone National Park.
That was a good series. My wife wanted to know why it was “The Men Who Built America”. I told her that the Girls Set wasn’t issued until 1957, LOL.
Ok I am watching the last episode about trust busting. I have a question. Please answer, if you know, without political bias but with facts. So Rockefeller and Morgan built giant monopolies or trust companies. Morgan was a leader in building trusts by consolidating industries to form a giant trust. All of this, to my understanding was legal at the time. Now along comes Bryan and Roosevelt and they want to bust up these trusts and do so using the courts. Now if there were no anti-trust laws prior to their formation how can laws be passed to abolish them. Wouldn’t they be grandfathered. I can see preventing new ones but how was the government able to sue them into submission and bust them up? What was the legal grounds?
And to keep it Railroad related how can BNSF be the result of giant mergers and consolidation efforts (NP, GN, Burlington, Santa Fa, etc) and not be a monopoly and effected by anti-trust laws. Isn’t this the same thing Morgan did to form US steel. Is it not private? What or how does Bonneville Power administration work is it not private?
Dan Padova said:
That was a good series. My wife wanted to know why it was “The Men Who Built America”. I told her that the Girls Set wasn’t issued until 1957, LOL.
I actually would love to see a similar documentary made on the female power moguls of the last 60 years. There have been a few and when you think about it there are feminists and then there are the female power brokers. The Walmart chick, Opra, I am sure there are others and I wold lie to learn about how these women were able to buck the odds.
Good question Devon… I think I have an answer or at least part of an answer so I’ll get back to you tomorrow.
As for the railroad question, I think a lot of the mergers are a result of deregulation during the Reagan administration.
Devon, the real simple answer is that the big gov’t people wanted to have/take away the power of these men so they got creative and made new rules, manipulated existing rules and in many cases flat out stole from them. Now bear in mind I’m not trying to defend these mega rich bastards as they used many shady and bully tactics to accumulate their empires. But that is the basic story of mankind. I want what you have so I do whatever I can to manipulate the situation to get it, and if that won’t work, I use brute force. Now mind the fact that what I just said is not directly printed in the history books (because it doesn’t sound politically correct), but read between the lines and that’s exactly what happened. IMHO of course.
Mickey,
I get what your saying. I am stuck in the middle when it comes to my opinion between big government and big business. But my question is how did Big Gov’t defeat Big business legally if Big business formed legally prior to anti trust laws. Your said they created new laws, how did this effect an existing legally formed company? You also state the manipulated existing laws, what laws were in place prior to the formation of thee companies that were manipulated? And as for stealing from them…well that’s just par for the course.
Any mention of James Hill there?
The man who built the Great Northern railroad deserves a mention.
tac
GNHA
tac Foley said:
Any mention of James Hill there?
The man who built the Great Northern railroad deserves a mention.
tac
GNHA
No, you see, he lived west of the Mississippi River, and therefore doesn’t count much in US history.
Odd that they’re not all Muslims? 
Political drift. Careful.
Devon,
You say ‘Wouldn’t they be grandfathered.’ Answer: not necessarily. There’s no constitutional right to be given an exemption from a new law just because you were doing things differently beforehand. Modern finance is coping with all sorts of new laws which make them do things differently - and which make many of their older practices illegal.
35 or so years ago, we studied this in one of my upper level advanced Economics classes and that is the basic gist of it. This many years later, I really don’t remember the specifics to cite laws, etc., but that was the basics as I recall. Same thing with AT&T when ma bell was split. The concept was kind of like when Sherman marched to the sea stealing what ever he wanted and burning the rest. It was not what I would exactly call legal, but did he get charged or sent to jail. Yet all those innocent people he hurt were pretty much sol.
Devon, no preexisting arrangements aren’t necessarily grandfathered in. Especially if the powers that be, doesn’t want them grandfathered in. Part of the equation is who knows who, and who is doing what favors for whom.
I started reading about the Sherman Anti-Trust Act of 1890. That should shed some light. And I guess I knew that things don’t HAVE to be grandfathered but don’t have to be. So I understand better how the Gov’t could do it.
At the end of the show it was interesting how Rockefeller made far more after the companies were broken up than as a trust. He had controlling shares in most of them and they all became giants in their own right. So in some respects it benefited him.
An no mention of Hill or Villard.
Devon,
If you have time check out the book “The Incorporation of America” by Alan Trachtenberg. It might help you understand some of your questions.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Incorporation-America-Culture-Society/dp/0809058286
As I thought about it last night, I’m not sure that I understand enough to begin to explain everything, but the NP & GN at the initial glance don’t seem ‘worthy’ of the trust busting of Roosevelt. Could it be that the companies declared bankruptcy (I know the NP did, but not sure about the GN) and that has something to do with the defining of a ‘trust’?
For an explanation about modern railroads, I think you would be advised to look up the Staggers Act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staggers_Rail_Act
I’ll bow out of this conversation as it’s way above my knowledge base!
As was touched on in a previous post, whomever is in power at the time gets his/her way. So the legality of today may be illegal tomorrow. Take the Steven Girard will. It was determined that his will, as written, became illegal when the Civil Rights Law was put in place. So from that moment on, it gave a green light to anyone that wanted to contest a will. Yet a will is supposed to be gospel…???
Craig Townsend said:
Devon,
If you have time check out the book “The Incorporation of America” by Alan Trachtenberg. It might help you understand some of your questions.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Incorporation-America-Culture-Society/dp/0809058286
As I thought about it last night, I’m not sure that I understand enough to begin to explain everything, but the NP & GN at the initial glance don’t seem ‘worthy’ of the trust busting of Roosevelt. Could it be that the companies declared bankruptcy (I know the NP did, but not sure about the GN) and that has something to do with the defining of a ‘trust’?
For an explanation about modern railroads, I think you would be advised to look up the Staggers Act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staggers_Rail_Act
I’ll bow out of this conversation as it’s way above my knowledge base!
The Great Northern Railway Company never had gummint help, Hill paid cash on the barrel head for everything. No debt, no bankruptcy. At the risk of sounding political, that makes the argument for gummint staying out of business. Every other Class 1 railroad accepted gummint help, and declared bankruptcy at one time or the other, including UP. GN, never.
That’s what I thought Steve, and the GN was the only RR that didn’t receive land grants either.