Large Scale Central

The Little River RR 1:20.3 Log Loader in 3D

Modeling Technical Modeling
#1

The fellas out on the Little River RR wanted to model the hard working AH&D Log Loaders that were seen throughout the Smoky Mountains.

So they turned to the 21st century technology of 3D design at Shapeways.com and found a very good 3D modeler Nikita Krutov [email protected] from across the pond in Germany.

He was able to work with the good ole boys of the LRRR in designing a 1:20.3 model of this hard working beast.

He was able to work with these modern day images of the AH&D loader first built in the very early 20th century:

CASS WEST VIRGINIA

LITTLE RIVER RR MUSEUM, TOWNSEND TENNESSEE

CRADLE OF FORESTRY, PISGAH NF, NORTH CAROLINA

This is the 3 D image he came up with:

Now the fellas will look around for a 3D printer to build this interesting bit of early 20th century technology and move some logs.

Notice the steam engine is not included in the drawing, the intent was to reduce the printing costs and use one of the commercially available modeled steam engines.

Thanks for looking and any and all advice regarding the printing process and how to do it inexpensively.

Doc Tom

#2

I look forward to seeing this take shape!! I have wanted to do an AH&D Loader for some time! I would think a Bachmann skidder would probably work well for the engine part, or maybe building one from Ozark donkey parts.

#3

Aaron Loyet said:

I look forward to seeing this take shape!! I have wanted to do an AH&D Loader for some time! I would think a Bachmann skidder would probably work well for the engine part, or maybe building one from Ozark donkey parts.

Thanks Aaron. I was thinking along those exact same lines as well. I had read others say the B.mann skidder engine was a bit small for 1:20.3. But I keep an open mind.

Also would love to find one of the libraries that offer 3D printing. Shapeways costs to print this in white plastic is about $450. That would take some time to save up.

Looking forward to any and all ideas.

Doc Tom

#4

Let me look into it, I may have someone who can find a place to do it. I will let you know what I find :smiley:

And a Bachmann is a little small, but would be a cheaper route, and after water tanks and such are installed it probably would look about right

#5

I would also like to build one of these loaders. Please let us know when you find a way to get them printed, and how we can purchase one…

Just a thought-The Bachmann and the Ozark donkey/skidder units are not the correct size for 1:20.3. They might be usable, but if the loader is correct for 1:20.3, I suspect the size difference will be obvious. I have started build a couple of 1:20.3 Dolbeer donkeys, using plans by Bill Roy, and the difference in the size compared to the Bachmann unit is distinctive.

#6

However a Bachmann Donkey engine, a pair of Calipers, a calculator and a 3D modeling package equals a quality 1:20 donkey engine. Although the Bachmann unit is small (1:2205 or 1:24 I would guess), it will still make a great master for the model. The same could be done with Ozark parts.

FWIW Bob C.

#7

Thanks guys for all the input. The 3D modeler Nik was having a go at designing the steam engine but it was getting pricey and we elected to forgo it. This loader is scaled correctly in 1:20.3 and the cab is 5 inches wide, 8 inches long and about 7.5 inches high. The overall length including the boom is 20 inches just a little longer than scale 1:20.3 thirty foot flat cars I use on my layout.

I am very interested in this new technology and am finding that 3D printing companies are increasing in number and hopefully pricing will be competitive.

Thank you again for all your ideas. It is good to hear from you.

Doc Tom

#8

Tom,

I would suggest reviewing Mark Dash’s 3D modeling of a GP Diesel. He started with a complete single model,as it appears yours is, and broke it into multiple smaller parts that will fit conveniently on a printer. A fast glance at your model and I can see about 8 or 10 sub components easily printable, and if done correctly any 10 year old could assemble it. The most difficult item I see is the boom, due to it’s length. The rived detail may also be an issue. Assembly bolts on a 7/8n2 truck side frame Dave Bodnar did for me were kinda rough. Maybe with some fine tuning we might get it ro work. The more I look at your skidder, the more I am thinking printing the cab, frame, undercarriage and donkey, and then scratch the boom.

FWIW, Bob C.

#9

Bob Cope said:

Tom,

I would suggest reviewing Mark Dash’s 3D modeling of a GP Diesel. He started with a complete single model,as it appears yours is, and broke it into multiple smaller parts that will fit conveniently on a printer. A fast glance at your model and I can see about 8 or 10 sub components easily printable, and if done correctly any 10 year old could assemble it. The most difficult item I see is the boom, due to it’s length. The rived detail may also be an issue. Assembly bolts on a 7/8n2 truck side frame Dave Bodnar did for me were kinda rough. Maybe with some fine tuning we might get it ro work. The more I look at your skidder, the more I am thinking printing the cab, frame, undercarriage and donkey, and then scratch the boom.

FWIW, Bob C.

Thanks for the input Bob. I will review all I can on how to get this printed easily and as low cost as possible.

It is interesting that the 3D plans can be broken down to components.

The boom is long …about 12 inches. Shapeways will print it as a separate piece for $50. I will be looking for other printer’s prices as well.

Should be a lot of fun.

Doc Tom

#10

send me the file and I doubt the whole thing would be over $50 lol

:wink:

#11

I would have thought it cheaper to build from Plastruct etc.,?

#12

Mark Dash said:

send me the file and I doubt the whole thing would be over $50 lol

:wink:

Hi Mark,

Do you do 3D printing?? I would be happy to have you take a look see at the file. I tried looking for your original posts on the diesel but could not find them on LSC…maybe looking in the wrong part.

Printing costs are what is holding a lot of enthusiasm back on this new technology. For example Shapeways.com is quoting $360 for the rest of the loader to be printed. It will take awhile to save up for that kind of expense.

Thanks for the input and if your are interested in printing the loader beast let me know were to send you the files and your printing costs.

Tom

#13

Ross Mansell said:

I would have thought it cheaper to build from Plastruct etc.,?

Hi Ross

My RR buddy here in town is also recommending more traditional modeling techniques and maybe doing “some of the parts” as 3D prints. This can be done using the CAD program I have. The whole model (minus the steam engine) so far is looking like about $410 in printing costs from Shapeways.com. It would be a while before that could be budgeted.

Our Large Scale models can be expensive in 3D printing…there are a lot of neat things in n scale and z scale at the Shapeways.com website.

The price of 3D printing right now is the Achilles’s heel of this very fascinating technology. Hopefully, as 3D printing becomes more competitive prices will come down.

Thanks for the input.

Doc Tom

#14

Mark, if the price is reasonable, you might have a few others interested in that beast. Maybe you could earn a little side income making printed kits, “specify scale on the order page of the website”.

:wink:

#15

Doc,

This post on MLS along with this post from shapeways might give you an idea of why the print costs so much.

http://www.shapeways.com/blog/archives/490-significant-price-reduction-on-dense-models.html?%2Farchives%2F490-significant-price-reduction-on-dense-models_html=

You’ve got a lot of empty space in the original model that can be easily eliminated, and thus the price should lower.

#16

Doc Tom,

From a small experiment I am working with David Bodnar on, I would propose that part of the cost from Shapeways is the clean up after printing and the ‘lost’ material used there. I am gathering from your posts that you are anticipating printing the loader in one single print. If that assumption is correct there will be a tremendous amount of wasted material, and time spent cleaning the open interior segments.

That was my comment in a past post, break the model into segments that print flat with little or no additional support and lesser clean up. The best description I can give is to make your printed parts like a ‘shake the box’ kit.

Maybe some day in the future the process will advance to a state where complete models can be printed economically in one piece, but we are a far cry from that now.

Mark,

Dave M has the right of it. I would also be interested if the price is right, also in 1:20.3. I am not sure tho how long the library will not charge for a ‘business’ rate. :slight_smile:

FWIW Bob C.

#17

Tom - this is my gp30-c thread

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/21218/gp-30-3d-printed/view/page/3

this is my spine car thread

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/21173/spine-car

#18

Mark Dash said:

Tom - this is my gp30-c thread

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/21218/gp-30-3d-printed/view/page/3

this is my spine car thread

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/21173/spine-car

Very good reads! Thank you for posting them. Doc Tom

#19

Found a way to open those files, man that cabin is huge, almost takes up the whole build plate on a Makerbot Replicator 2

(http://thingiverse-production.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/2b/83/67/8c/0e/Log_Loader-cabin_preview_featured.jpg)

(http://thingiverse-production.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/40/54/bf/e4/6a/Log_Loader-boom_preview_featured.jpg)

#20

Mark Dash said:

Found a way to open those files, man that cabin is huge, almost takes up the whole build plate on a Makerbot Replicator 2

(http://thingiverse-production.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/2b/83/67/8c/0e/Log_Loader-cabin_preview_featured.jpg)

(http://thingiverse-production.s3.amazonaws.com/renders/40/54/bf/e4/6a/Log_Loader-boom_preview_featured.jpg)

Way to go Mark!!! Your skills are impressive!! Glad a fellow modeler has a grasp on this technology. Your 3D picture looks better than the Shapeways picture too.

Do you have any idea what it would cost to print this beast? I agree it is big in 1:20.3 scale. The overall length is about 20 inches. Hangs a bit over a 30 foot 1:20.3 flat car and probably right at home on a 40 foot flat in 1:20.3.

Thank you again for the beautiful rendition of the loader.

Doc Tom