Having said this, Uintah ‘Mallets’ are also my favourite US locomotives and an interesting example of extraordinary engineering skills required to make them going - please remember that #50 was a complete disaster when first delivered by Baldwin… Best, Zubi
David, thanks for the pic of the Uintah grade. I’ve read about how steep and twisted it was, but seeing it is mind-boggling! Makes the curves and grades on my layout look quite reasonable by comparison.
Z, thanks for the pic and info about the Kitson-Meyer. What an interesting, and cool-looking loco!
Zubi, Didn’t think I was in competition but I’m sure if the Uintah engines could pull a 7.5 percent in a 65 degree curve, they could easily handle an 8 percent even though I’m not aware that there was 8 percent on the railway. Yes, initially they did have problems, they couldn’t get around morro castle without derailing the front pilot. They simply backed it to Atchee and in 2 days time relocated some obstacles that prevented it from articulating fully. After that, with the exception of a steam dome being added because the crown sheet would expose when descending the steep grade, it worked well.
Zbigniew Struzik said:
David Ross said:
Uintahs articulateds weren’t the largest in the world but the grade/curves they were designed to negotiate could be termed notorious. This is a photo taken last year of morro castle curve on the original Uintah grade, now a county maintained road. The 1:1 radius is around 93 ft all while consistantly climbing a 7.5 percent grade (rising 7 1/2 ft. in 100 feet). The debris that has accumulated near the toe of the rock cliff if removed might add another 20 or 30 ft. to the diameter in this photo but it would still look like a jeep trail.Nice try David, but these Kitson-Meyers could travel 8 percent grade;-) on adhesion units alone and initially, they also had rack and pinion mechanisms installed (later removed)
(http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/7/6/2/1762.1106259960.jpg)
see the excellent book Kitson Meyer Articulated Locomotives by Donald Bins (Trackside Publications) http://www.transportdiversions.com/publicationshow.asp?pubid=4232or some info on Mr Telefont’s site: http://www.kitson-meyer.com/ Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi PS You probably would not even get to the summit (13.082ft) of the Transandine line in your jeep to take a photo…
And by the way, I like the outside frame on the Kitson-Meyers very nice looking loco, and I appreciate the links. Scenery and elevation wise, the area that the Uintah ran through, aside from the climb over Baxter Pass, is quite desolate and certainly doesn’t come close to the elevations and views of South America! 
David Ross said:;-))) David, exposing the crown sheet on a grade (either 7.5% or 8%;-) is not what I would want to experience... please check the Bender's book, the engine had been instantly grounded by the officials and it had to be ingeniously and extensively rebuilt by the Uintah engineers to be able to return to service. Yes, there were other problems too, which I do not all remember, one of them was I think the adhesion of the front set of drivers - this is why the extra weight (and sand lines?) had to be added to the front truck - the peculiar looking sand box. But all in all, the Uintah 'Mallets' (although not true Mallets at all) were probably the most advanced US narrow gauge engines that Baldwin ever made, it is a pity they got lost forever! Best wishes, Zubi
... After that, with the exception of a steam dome being added because the crown sheet would expose when descending the steep grade, it worked well.
David Ross said:Thanks David! By the way the FCTC Kitson-Meyer is an outside frame locomotive. I wish they still travelled there on the Transandine line!! Thanks and best regards, Zubi
And by the way, I like the inside frame on the Kitson-Meyers very nice looking loco, and I appreciate the links. Scenery and elevation wise, the area that the Uintah ran through, aside from the climb over Baxter Pass, is quite desolate and certainly doesn't come close to the elevations and views of South America! :)
Ok Zubi, I stand corrected and I’ll go check my book…
(http://www.lscdata.com/users/ssordd/_forumfiles/frombaxter4.jpg)
Looking southeast from Baxter pass on the Uintah
(http://www.lscdata.com/users/ssordd/_forumfiles/downtoatchee4.jpg)
On the grade looking toward Atchee
Zbigniew Struzik said:David, I need to correct myself here (I checked the books now...;-) The FCTC Kitson Meyer is outside frame on the front bogie (truck) and inside frame on the rear unit. However, the same inside frames of the rear unit were outside frames for the two rack pinions installed between the three wheel axles. Initially, there was the third rack pinion with its separate cylinders on the front unit but that proved to be too much for the boiler steam production and apparently there was no need for this third rack pinion so it got the push. Unlike most mountain railroads pulling a few wagons/cars these locomotives pulled 150 tons through the Transandine line (140 ton on the 8% grade), and the funny thing is that Livesey Son & Henderson who were requested to design the locomotive approached Dr Abt (who was the inventor of the rack and pinion system bearing his name) and his opinion was strictly negative - I cite "terrible accidents must be expected if the Company tried to haul such loads". But LS&H Consulting Engineers designed the locomotive anyway ;-) (although they did not see the need for the third rack pinion - and were proven right later), and Kitson & Company produced the prototype locomotive in 1907 (first of five of this 0-8+6-0T front outside frame type, the final pair had indeed both front and rear inside frame units). Best regards, Zubi
Thanks David! By the way the FCTC Kitson-Meyer is an outside frame locomotive. I wish they still travelled there on the Transandine line!! Thanks and best regards, Zubi
“Desolate” doesn’t begin to describe the area of the Uintah. I ventured out there once in college, and didn’t see a cow for at least 4 hours, let alone another human. (And in Colorado, that’s darned hard to do!) Alas on that trip, the pass was still closed. My next trip was more successful, and that’s some kind of railroadin’ they did up there. If I didn’t have my book telling me I was driving on the grade, I would never in a million years believed they ran trains over that.
BTW–because I happen to have the book in front of me, the Uintah mikes–10’ 7" across the tanks, 46’ 10" long, 13’ 5.5" tall. 42,100 pounds tractive effort.
By comparison, the K-37 is 10’ 5" wide at the cylinders, 9’ 9" across the running boards, 40’ long (excluding tender), and 37,100 pounds tractive effort.
Later,
K
Kevin Strong said:Kevin, that is scary;-)! I now realise that I have not seen a cow in Tokyo for much longer than 4 hours (other than in bits in the supermarket...). More seriously, other than in the western and central Europe, and as you say Colorado;-), mountains tend to be rather desolated areas, it is enough to go 100km north or west from Tokyo and spend the entire day without encountering any cows or humans - but beware of the monkeys! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
"Desolate" doesn't begin to describe the area of the Uintah. I ventured out there once in college, and didn't see a cow for at least 4 hours, let alone another human.
For over thirty years they ran across Baxter pass with very minor changes to that grade. Dry and dusty north and south of the pass. Any community north of Wendella, which included Dragon, Watson and most all the mining camps had their water hauled by the railroad to water towers or cysterns every day except sunday. There was no source for water in the extreme northern or southern section of the railroad, thus, the trains made up of water cars and freight.
Kevin Strong said:
"Desolate" doesn't begin to describe the area of the Uintah. I ventured out there once in college, and didn't see a cow for at least 4 hours, let alone another human. (And in Colorado, that's darned hard to do!) Alas on that trip, the pass was still closed. My next trip was more successful, and that's some kind of railroadin' they did up there. If I didn't have my book telling me I was driving on the grade, I would never in a million years believed they ran trains over that.
David Ross said:
Uintahs articulateds weren’t the largest in the world but the grade/curves they were designed to negotiate could be termed notorious. This is a photo taken last year of morro castle curve on the original Uintah grade, now a county maintained road. The 1:1 radius is around 93 ft all while consistantly climbing a 7.5 percent grade (rising 7 1/2 ft. in 100 feet). The debris that has accumulated near the toe of the rock cliff if removed might add another 20 or 30 ft. to the diameter in this photo but it would still look like a jeep trail.(http://www.lscdata.com/users/ssordd/_forumfiles/morrocastle3.jpg)
My goodness that is a telling photo. Thank you for sharing. Unbelievable dramatic curve and elevation. To think those big Uintah monsters went over that is incredible.
Nice pictures David.
I just got a chance to check out the Garret video. Forget the whistle, did you notice the wheels on the tank car ?? A prototype for unpainted plated wheels 
…BTW–because I happen to have the book in front of me, the Uintah mikes–10’ 7" across the tanks, 46’ 10" long, 13’ 5.5" tall. 42,100 pounds tractive effort.
By comparison, the K-37 is 10’ 5" wide at the cylinders, 9’ 9" across the running boards, 40’ long (excluding tender), and 37,100 pounds tractive effort. …
Thank you Kevin.
Unless someone wants to object, I will deem the Uintahs the largest NG locomotives (sans tenders) ever built for US rails.
As soon as Kevin gives us the measurements from pilots to tender couplers of the SV and the K-37,
we may have a winner there as well!
j
Can you imagine a correct 1:20.3 model of a Uintah or SV mallet!
How big in inches would that be?
Anyone want to venture an answer?
(I’m too lazy to do the math :)–or too damn dumb)
27.2" long, 6.5" wide, 8" tall. (I don’t know the dimensions of the SV tenders.)
Later,
K
Zbigniew Struzik said:
Kevin Strong said:
“Desolate” doesn’t begin to describe the area of the Uintah. I ventured out there once in college, and didn’t see a cow for at least 4 hours, let alone another human.Kevin, that is scary;-)! I now realise that I have not seen a cow in Tokyo for much longer than 4 hours (other than in bits in the supermarket…). More seriously, other than in the western and central Europe, and as you say Colorado;-), mountains tend to be rather desolated areas, it is enough to go 100km north or west from Tokyo and spend the entire day without encountering any cows or humans - but beware of the monkeys! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3021/2961600160_52eaae5cc2_b.jpg)
But in the Alps, it is difficult to get a ski lift, so many cows queue up!! Zubi