Tim,
In my opinion Marklin may own LGB in Europe, but I think that LGB of America owns the LGB logo in North America… If Marklin had it all why would they tick off 50% of there buying public by not bring any thing to North America for 2 years or more?? Looks like a classic case of shooting thy self in both feet… Again my opinion only!!
Tim Brien said:Tim,
HJ, I think that I can hear the fat lady rehearsing in the wings for the big finale.
I have the same feeling, let’s see what summer has to serve up. 
Some little birdie was talking about a change of name - you know what that indicates - and a move. The move was long anticipated.
BTW the sooner LGB®Märklin produces the RhB Rp-w flat the sooner I’ll buy three or four, that one will be a big seller with the RhB crowd.
In the meantime rather than sweat it, I’m busy working on the layout. Step by step as planned. Mind you I still sweat, we’re up to 20ºC and digging the trench for the stream … well it’s not the coolest job.
Bob Burton said:
Tim,In my opinion Marklin may own LGB in Europe, but I think that LGB of America owns the LGB logo in North America… If Marklin had it all why would they tick off 50% of there buying public by not bring any thing to North America for 2 years or more?? Looks like a classic case of shooting thy self in both feet… Again my opinion only!!
You have to roll back this movie by a few months, the why’s were all there. Clear as day and the day is now bright and sunny, with no smog in the air. 
All it will take is a bit of patience. Did you notice the NA stuff that was listed on that production schedule? Or did you miss that? 
Vic,
the company you linked too is obviously referring to smaller gauges/scales, although its context could quite easily be applied to the LGB branded product. I assume that they are referring to Walthers as the Marklin named distributor. If Marklin have a poor reputation for the popular scales like ‘h.o.’, then what bodes for the more ‘exclusive’ LGB scale products? It seems it is not supply that is the problem, but Marklin after sales service like warranty and spares support.
If the company continue their decision to deal only with a European distributor then I feel that a price rise is a certainty, as the distribution company in Europe need to make a profit margin on their purchases from Marklin and then pass on their increases to the seller/dealer in the States. Hopefully (but not knowing the Walthers pricing strategy, although I suspect recommended retail price levels and not street price marketting), Walthers will pass on savings, by dealing direct with the manufacturer, Marklin. End result will be the American consumer losing interest in the product and looking elswhere for a compatible product. The market is not as monopolistic as it was twenty years ago.Tim-
You need to look at Walthers pricing sometime.
They don’t pass ANY savings along!
No matter how they buy it!
That is not the only company who won’t do business with Walthers.
I know a big store that is dropping Märklin once Walthers gets it.
Remember Scoentag?
Remember Castellano?
Remember the reversion of rights under German law once the company transferred?
Now we wonder, if Kingbridge does not want to spend money on law-yahs, what’s the next best thing to get certain folks to drop their claims?
Bob Burton said:
Tim,In my opinion Marklin may own LGB in Europe, but I think that LGB of America owns the LGB logo in North America… If Marklin had it all why would they tick off 50% of there buying public by not bring any thing to North America for 2 years or more?? Looks like a classic case of shooting thy self in both feet… Again my opinion only!!
Vic,
It’s more like “we chose who we sell to”. If you consider Jack Lynch’s comment that LGBoA will sign an agreement as soon as the terms are to their liking (paraphrased!) then I ask myself “What is he smoking?”. I ran that by SWMBO (lots of import/export/distribution experience in the MRR field) she just burst out laughing. Can you imagine, that’s not the way it works in business?!? What a surprise, eh!
Now apart from “solid business experience” statements like Bucksco’s, there’s the little matter of the games that were played surrounding the EPL insolvency. Amongst a lot of other things, I’m reasonably sure it’s a trust factor. Would be with me if I were Märklin.
Tim Brien said:
Vic, the company you linked too is obviously referring to smaller gauges/scales, although its context could quite easily be applied to the LGB branded product. I assume that they are referring to Walthers as the Marklin named distributor. If Marklin have a poor reputation for the popular scales like 'h.o.', then what bodes for the more 'exclusive' LGB scale products? It seems it is not supply that is the problem, but Marklin after sales service like warranty and spares support.If the company continue their decision to deal only with a European distributor then I feel that a price rise is a certainty, as the distribution company in Europe need to make a profit margin on their purchases from Marklin and then pass on their increases to the seller/dealer in the States. Hopefully (but not knowing the Walthers pricing strategy, although I suspect recommended retail price levels and not street price marketting), Walthers will pass on savings, by dealing direct with the manufacturer, Marklin. End result will be the American consumer losing interest in the product and looking elswhere for a compatible product. The market is not as monopolistic as it was twenty years ago.</blockquote>Agreeing with Dave
Walthers is no friend to the average hobby store, everything is full MSRP and they consider a “sale” 10% off, whoopdie freakin do!Marklins reputation being “poor” is not the way I would characterize it though, not “Poor” but “Who?” The product itself is first rate, its the fact that its dam near impossible to find anyone who sells it so you can actually see what your going to buy. I know if ONE store in So Cal that still carries it, Train Shack in Burbank, maybe theirs others, maybe Allied in Santa Monica still has it, but even so, its very expensive stuff!
Walthers IMHO actually hurts the hobby in the long run, if brick and morter Shop A can olny get supplies from Walthers and has to mark product at full MSRP to make a profit, while mailorder warehouse Shop B (and some brick and morter shops as well) across town gets there product direct from manufacture and can price at 20-30% below MSRP, guess which shop will suffer? Too many people are internet savey today, and Walthers has not kept pace with the realities of the marketplace, people buy where the best deal is, this bodes very bad for LGB sales. Not just because full MSRP will apply but because the deal MArklin signed in an exclusive one, no more “direct from LGB” purchases, and as Dave poins out, some places wont deal with Walthers anymore.
Remember, Walthers carried LGB for years, until LGB opened direct ordering from the mail order wholesalers, the mailorder business so undercut them that they dropped them from their line. MArklin now cuts this option out of the loop, all our favorite suppliers will now have to order only from Walthers or drop the product line, which like Dave, I think will happen to more than one of our favorite shops. Why? simple, Walthers has a rather Draconian policy I was once told,the way I understand it, if your a seller, they will only do business with you if you sign an exclusive agreement, namely to get ALL of your product from Walthers and Walthers only. If you have any other direct from manufacturer agreements or agreements with any other distributer, you are out.
Vic,
has anyone told Walthers management about dinosaurs and extinction and how only the fittest survive? Remember that LGB once marketted under the ‘exclusivety’ market line, only supplying to brick and mortar stores. Sellers found a way around this by importing direct from wholesalers in Europe. Same thing will happen again. LGB saw that sales plummet when you limit the market potential. Marklin will find the same with their sales.
Right now I do not think that the American continent figures very high in their market strategy, more like a little dog biting at their heals. I believe that you are right with the seige mentality. The Germans are not going to cave in to ‘blackmail’, which it seems the trademark ownership riddle is. Gentlemen exchange ownership with a handshake, I am beginning to suspect the quality of the breeding of any handshake deals done back in 2006.
Of course I figure I will stick my nose in on this one. I feel it wouldn’t matter much if LGBoA got a contract as Marklin isn’t distributing anything to the US and they aren’t making US prototype products for 2008 either. The letter just reflects reality. In 2009 people might not even care if they start shipping to the US through a US distributor or a European one. As I listen to people saying that a group them should get together to purchase a bulk order(s) of LGB through a European dealer I feel why purchase product from a company that doesn’t want to ship product to the country you live in. Don’t want to deal with LGBoA find someone else and send a percentage of when they do start to get product into NA a lot of the old purchasers of LGB product might not care whether there is product or not.
In regards to using Walthers as the US distributor in replacement of Marklin USA shows that Marklin is looking for a partner who keeps the prices up. Walthers also seems to have some weird back order practices. One of the LHS’s near me got an item in 3 weeks ago from them that he ordered for a customer over 2 years before when he was told by Walthers it was in stock in multiple quantities. Never showed up and Walthers turned around and said they didn’t have it in stock and is backordered. Well over 2 years later it suddenly shows up. They never informed the LHS it was going to ship and well the customer of the LHS has no need for it now. Then again the owner of the LHS should have contacted Walthers to tell them that any backorders they have with them should be cancelled especially if they are over a year old.
LAO
Larry,
I just rechecked that delivery list for 2008, there sure is a lot of RhB stuff on that list.
BTW that letter about “No agreement” is also on the Clambake MR site http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=2471
Well here’s a big surprise! Not!
Where does this leave all the supporters of LBGoA?
What have these people actually achieved other than to cut the supply of LGB products to NA?
Marklin will probably not bother to supply NA with product or spares whilst LGBoA lives and breathes.
Those customers who blindly supported LGBoA thereby allying htemselves with LGBoA interests have nailed their flag to the wrong tree.
The exchange rates between the USA and Europe are so out of equilibrium at the moment it is difficult to see how any european exporter can make ANY profit in the USA at the present time. It will take at least 2 years for the situation to reverse. USA interest rates would have to increase and European interest rates fall.
LGBoA would appear to have been quietly implementing plan B AKA getting into bed with Piko no doubt assisted by their ownership of LGB IP in the USA/NA market.
Les
Les,
Answers:
High and dry
In a real pickle
Sounding depressed
Contemplating another email campaign
Cancelling placed orders
Reality challenged
Those are just some of the terms that come to mind after reading the posts in the different fora. 
The one about an email campaign is charming; some people have really, really short memories.
OTOH from anectodal reports out of the NGRC in Phoenix, AZ there is the possibility of a “Same Game, different Name” announcement from LGBoA. Perhaps they are a bit behind updating the News portion of the LGBoA website - shortage of staff???
The fairytale ending that started with a clandlestine handshake and a wink and a nod back in 2006 did not come to fruition. Is this justice or retribution? One feels for the company, as they, in my opinion, were the sibling who should have inherited the estate, if things had of been handled maybe a little more astutely.
LGBoA ‘getting into bed with Piko’ is just business survival tactics. Piko is the ugly duckling that will blossom into a swan. I feel that they see the Marklin marketting model as lunacy, cuttting off half their potenmtial market sales, to what end? Marklin is hard pressed supplying the European market at present, but another American Christmas season over without LGB stock on the shelves, will test the reserve of even the most ardent American LGB fanatic. Consumers are a fickle lot. When one manufacturer’s product is not available then they will purchase from another. Even fans have their ‘price’ when it comes to fanaticism.
ps. Just read on another site that LGBoA will call themselves ‘Silvergate’ and leave the LGB world for good.
Since it appears that Marklin is, essentially, abandoning the US market, I wonder what will become of the molds, etc. for LGB’s American-style locos and rolling stock? Seems to me those things are too valuable to just throw out, and surely there’s still a market for a lot of those products.
If Marklin isn’t interested in producing them anymore, maybe they will sell off the molds and stuff to another company?
Tim Brien said:True. To their credit, Piko have been around and made good models for years. I have some of their East German made HO stuff that is in par with their Western competition. Ditto to another former GDR company that is also selling some "IIm scale" (but on 32mm rails) now: technomodell.
Piko is the ugly duckling that will blossom into a swan.
It will be interesting for sure to see what direction Piko take with increased production now…and maybe a larger market?
Garrett,
When in ‘h.o.’, I used to purchase the, then Eastern Germany, Piko steam locomotives and diesels (more than 20 years ago). In my memory, they were as good as anything else on the market and to their credit they produced prototype locomotives and rolling stock that the ‘free western world’ did not build. This was of course, pre Dr. Wilfer. I feel that Piko will now have a ‘dream run’ as the market place is wide open for the ‘right’ models. All we need is for Dr. Wilfer to pick up the ex-LGB Chinese moulds and reintroduce the ex-LGB American prototype back to the market. While not as detailed as those items on offer from Aristo and USA Trains, there is that touch of nostalgia with these models which endears them.
When my divorce was finalised; it was time for a great party to celebrate.
Whan will the big PARTY be held for this divorce.......I'd like to attend !!!Fr. Fred
I guess it all depends who picks up the bill. 
And let’s hope it’s not “next week”.
Tim Brien said:Tim, DDR produced PIKO HO was a bit like Bachmann. The detail and quality of moulds was generally quite good. But the motors and drive train were generally very poor. When the DDR collapsed I managed to buy some of the final PIKO models, I still have them and they look great but they are not really great runners and some are actually pretty bad... BTW PIKO used to produce N scale too but I am not sure that they continue this now. One DDR make which was really good was ZEUKE, in many ways they remind me of LGB in that they were a small family company which struggled with the DDR regime, the difference was that LGB escaped to the West while ZEUKE stayed. Still, they produced some fantastic models, starting with 0-gauge bakelite locomotives both steam and electric prototypes (one such set with a battery powered 0-4-0 got me started in "large scales" 45years ago - five years before LGB was born) Later, Zeuke stopped with 0-gauge and continued with TT, which they first announced in 1957. 0-gauge was likely abandoned because the founder Herr Zeuke left the company after it became nationalised by the DDR in 1972. In any case, the state company Zeuke TT Bahnen continued with fantastic trains which both looked good and worked very well, although they were not as creative as the original Zeuke's firm. Believe it or not, I had a set with the first Shinkansen 0-series model from Zeuke TT Bahnen as early as 1968 - and I am not sure that ANY other company in Europe or even outside Japan EVER made a model of any of the Shinkansens (until Bachmann's recent 500 release in HO). (UPDATE - thanks to Tim I learned that Maerklin and also LIMA and possibly other makes did release 0-series.) Unlike PIKO, Zeuke did not survive the collapse of DDR and I vaguely recall Gutzgold and Sachsenmodelle and now Tillig as successors of parts of Zeuke programme. This is a long story, but the thing I want to say is that there should still be plenty of potential in the restructured ex DDR companies, PIKO being the foremost example. Before you mentioned this, I was thinking that PIKO may be acquiring the US outline moulds (std gauge in particular) from LGB(oA) - if they ever show up for sale. But I am not sure who has these moulds now. They may be in the hands of Maerklin and in that case, most likely we will see some models reappearing in a few years time when the supply of US outline will sufficiently dry out _in Europe_ - I think Maerklin could not be less interested in the US market, and wisely so. Under Maerklin the LGB will most likely go back to its European formula - of expensive, exclusive products in a very limited variety with a minimal US programme for European enthusiast who simply like some diversity - like me. This is how I remember LGB from late 80's and 90's in Europe. BTW, back then there were never any discounts on LGB, you had to pay the full list price or, if you were lucky, 90% of the list price at some large toyshop retailers who carried it then - but quit a long time ago. If you wanted to pay less you had to travel to Germany where a few dealers would offer 20% discounts (probably not any more). US market was different, in that LGBoA tried to bring LGB to the masses, but this will probably have to change now. Sadly, this also means that there will most likely never be a any new US or non-European outline products (in particular narrow gauge which is my exclusive interest). The market simply is not there anymore and certainly not for expensive and exclusive classic "nostalgia" LGB models. But, a small rerun volume of these classics is still possible under Maerklin, IMHO - in a few years time, perhaps... Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
Garrett, When in 'h.o.', I used to purchase the, then Eastern Germany, Piko steam locomotives and diesels (more than 20 years ago). In my memory, they were as good as anything else on the market and to their credit they produced prototype locomotives and rolling stock that the 'free western world' did not build. This was of course, pre Dr. Wilfer. I feel that Piko will now have a 'dream run' as the market place is wide open for the 'right' models. All we need is for Dr. Wilfer to pick up the ex-LGB Chinese moulds and reintroduce the ex-LGB American prototype back to the market. While not as detailed as those items on offer from Aristo and USA Trains, there is that touch of nostalgia with these models which endears them.