Large Scale Central

📐 The 10ft Rule. When is Accuracy Doomed to Fail

I’m interested in how you balance accuracy vs longevity when building wooden structures for the garden.

I’ve received a set of fairly detailed plans for a mine poppet head, and some of the specified plank sizes come in as narrow as 1/16". On paper—and on the bench—that level of fidelity looks spot on.

But it raises the bigger question: where does the 10 ft rule come into play?

Im worried that at normal viewing distance, a lot of that fine work won’t really register, and over time outdoors those smaller sections are also the most vulnerable to losing definition or simply breaking.

I’m keen to get some advice on how others approach it, especially if their structures live out side.

Bill how many people who will see this would know what the timber sizes shold be. Also a lot of these structures would have been built out of what was on hand.

For me, it’s honestly more about what I want to do. I am designing a building where I’m doing to be doing work that no one will ever see, but I know its there and I want to do it right for myself, more than anythijg. Having said that, if a beam is a little short, or a doorway ends up being framed a little narrow, I likely womt worry about it. No one will know, they certianly won’t measure it, and at the end of the day, it’ll still be a decent model of a historic building.

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first - you are building a non-elevated gardenlayout.
so you can forget the 10 foot rule. why? - because everything, that is nearer than 10 foot away is invisible.
from roling stock and houses you see nothing but roofs, from figures the hats.

and from farther off than 10 foot, you see no details.

striktly speaking - you can’t.

any wooden part, that is “to scale” is much too thin for stability.

just calculate the scales.
for instance the frame for a wooden house-wall.
in scale 22.5 the standard 1 x 2" beams should be as wide as a matchstick, and half the thickness. and a normal board of 1" thickness results as “fat”, as a single layer from a plywood sheet.
a normal coffee stirrer results in a plank of 1½" thickness.
in 1:32 the coffee stirrer results in a plank of 2".

so, if you want something, that lasts an entire season, you’ll have to lie!
(like sawburner does: 10mm or ½" for posts, and everything else in an optical relation to it)

with Grüßen from the breeding station

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Bill,

Regarding longevity, I’ve used acrylic (sheets & strips), and it’s lasted well. However, I lasered it. If you can find a source of plastic strip that you can chemically weld, or make a stockpile of it, you should be able to make a headframe that lasts a long time.

Re accuracy, I agree with what’s been said. If you make or acquire a stockpile of bondable plastic strip (acrylic, ABS, PCV, styrene), I’d suggest making as few profiles as possible, cuz that makes things easier, and no one will notice (except for us, since you brought it up :grin:).

Details don’t last outdoors in my area where we have a true 4 seasons with temp swings from 0-100F. I generally build things to convey an idea of what they are for and the details are skipped because they will eventually disappear. They will rot away, the glue will fail, a critter will chew it off or the leaf blower will blast it away.

If you do go with really thin wood strips you could reinforce them from behind to make them tougher. In the States we have Tightbond3 wood glue which is great for outdoor use but it will eventually fail too. I have a few board and batten buildings where I used coffee stir sticks to make the battens. I literally painted the glue under and on the edges to seal them then painted the whole building and they still came off but it took about 8 years.

I think that if you can convey the theme of the build your brain will fill in the gaps where the details come up short even at closer distances than 10’ .

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No details or accuracy on my buildings.
All are built to last outdoors year round and weather naturally.
Aluminum or cedar roofs, cedar sub structure and cedar siding.
A good quality exterior paint.

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Bill,

One consideration I’ve not seen…Do you plan to store the buildings off the layout? Every move is another potentially lost detail!

Another, which I think previous respondents implied…What level of detail makes you happy? Maybe risks to detail parts are worth it to you.

Eric

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I am very not surprised that Mueller brought this up, but I agree: The level of detail is all up to you! I like details, so, my longterm plan is to store buildings inside and bring them out for ops or running sessions. Al Pomeroy does this, so he could say more about it. (My phone isnt letting me tag him here.)

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Pretty much what I was thinking Mick. Knowing what I have learned I would frame it heavy with the proper wood for your area then add details to your liking of maintenance level. Unless you want to store it inside and take it in and out like I do with some.

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I’ve tended to notice that 1/16" is about the smallest that seems to last long term.

Bill, in case you don’t have it, I’d recommend Making Model Buildings for Garden Railways by Peter Jones.

Lots of old-school wisdom on things like gluing, painting and preserving wood, plaster, etc.

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if you are building an opened sided or roof saw mill, for example, I would prolly make my beams, etc more or less to scale using cedar and tiny bolts (and pins and glue).
The inside of my buildings are all 1/2 x 3/4 and 1/2 x 1/2 inch. (mostly).

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Realistically I wouldn’t use anything less that 1/2" square outside, especially if its out year round. Many of my outdoor Mik projects were made out of literally 2x4s and 4x4s. I used pressure treated lumber and believe the nails will rust away before that wood deteriorates.

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I agree with building for survival instead of scale fidelity when outdoors. 10 feet in 1:20.3 scale is a scale 203 feet away. How much detail can you really see on a building 200 feet away?

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At greater than 8 feet, with glasses, I don’t see much detail. At around 8-4 feet, with glasses on, I see some. Closer than 3 feet I have to take glasses off and can finally see details. Closer than 6", I have to take a picture and enlarge it, if I care enough.

I thought that may be to your point, but after typing it out, I’m not so sure…

i think, most of us can agree, that fine details make more sense indoors, specially in dioramas, than outdoors.

but the years and the mistakes i made on my layouts showed me, that there is something more important, than the grade of detailism.
that would be a certain grade of harmonious consistency and coherence.

it is less the what we have or make - it is more important, how we compose things.

if one puts well detailed buildings or rolling stock just beside rough made or toy like stock or buildings, both types appear displaced.

that does not mean, that i want to argue against all differences.
for instance, detailed and/or bigger buildings in the foreground with less detailed or smaller buildings in the background can enhance the over all impression of a layout.

but if imagining a Thomas the Tank engine drawing a string of Amtrak coaches, followed by a caboose makes me shudder.
(but a full Thomas train crossing with a full Amtrak train does not)

or figures - detailed figures mixed with comic characters just looks stuffed, while both separated or just one kind can look nice and interesting.

or a Ford 100 pickup, parked beside a taller VW beetle just dont do it. they need distance.

in a way modeling and composing a layout are different things (i think)
the latter is more comparable with decorating a stage - to create a believable impression to guide the phantasy of the observers.

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Eric et. al.,

At this point I’m not sure what’s going to be left outside.

I think I will certainly be keeping some of my builds inside until I develop more robust weatherproofing skills.

Thanks to everyone for the advice.

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Cliff Jennings you are an influencer!

Arrived today.

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Bill, that’s great, I hope you enjoy it. I know I learned a lot from it!