Large Scale Central

Teddy Roosevelt on immigration

Theodore Roosevelt’s ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

           'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.'
            Theodore Roosevelt 1907

This one is true.
I agree with the entire statement. I believe this part is especially important. After all, most of us are descendants of immigrants.

“we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin”

Ralph

Unlike some people who think “WE” should assimilate ourselves into the rest of the world…

sorry Ralph…couldn’t resist…:wink:

Ken Brunt said:
Unlike some people who think "WE" should assimilate ourselves into the rest of the world.............

sorry Ralph…couldn’t resist…:wink:


When in Rome…do as the Romans.
Ralph

"Wonder when Bush is going to take it upon himself, to now go into Georgia to defend them against the Russians? You know we have to stick our noses in every where they don’t belong like Iraq!!

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. Locutas, ca 2430

Ralph Berg said:
Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all.
I'm American by act of God, born and raised in that wonderful country. I'm Australian by choice, a direct result of the decision my lady and I made to marry and raise our family in this wonderful country.

Since the rivalry between the US and Australia isn’t likely to extend much past the Olympic swimming pool, I doubt I’ll be called upon to choose between them. Others have been put in that invidious situation. Anyone know what TR thought of Robert E. Lee?

While I have the greatest respect for President Roosevelt (e.g., Treaty of Portsmouth), I never felt he belonged with Washington and Lincoln on Mt. Rushmore. Jefferson, maybe, but TR wasn’t in the same league. Comments like the one quoted here are part of the reason I hold this opinion.

That said, I agree completely with the part of TR’s quote that Ralph emphasises in his post.

Dave,
You don’t refer to yourself as a “American Australian”, do you?
From what I gathered from your previous posts, you have assimilated yourself in the Australian culture.
If you were in Paris and someone asked where you were from…would you answer Australia?
Ralph

This is a big part of the problem we have in this Nation. We just don’t have enough people that have strong enough confictions to leave when they dislike how things are here. To many want to stick around and try to change things here, instead of going to live in France, if they want to speak French.

Oh how correct you are, Ric. We have that same problem up here, but tripple it !!!

Fred,
It is just the curse of living in a great place with great people. No matter how good it is, somebody will have to bitch about something. It just is what it is.

Ric Golding said:
This is a big part of the problem we have in this Nation. We just don't have enough people that have strong enough confictions to leave when they dislike how things are here. To many want to stick around and try to change things here, instead of going to live in France, if they want to speak French.
Ric, I find it hard to believe there is nothing you would like to change. I know some things that have changed..........that I would like to change back. And there are a few things I would change if I could. That being said.......It does annoy me when people from "other" parts of the country retire here and then do their best to change things so it is like where they came from. I don't expect an immigrant to forget their culture or language. But I do expect them to learn our Culture and language. Ralph

There has been a movement in this country by some of the Muslim immigrants to get the Government to change the law so they can have more than one wife.
This is not the first thing they wish to change and wont be the last.
If you have the courage to adopt a new country to escape problems in your own why would you want to change it into what you left?
I can only wonder.
Dave

Ralph Berg said:
Ric Golding said:
This is a big part of the problem we have in this Nation. We just don't have enough people that have strong enough confictions to leave when they dislike how things are here. To many want to stick around and try to change things here, instead of going to live in France, if they want to speak French.
Ric, I find it hard to believe there is nothing you would like to change. I know some things that have changed..........that I would like to change back. And there are a few things I would change if I could. That being said.......It does annoy me when people from "other" parts of the country retire here and then do their best to change things so it is like where they came from. I don't expect an immigrant to forget their culture or language. But I do expect them to learn our Culture and language. Ralph
Ralph,

Well said.

Yes, I could see things changing back to more like it was in my younger times. There are comfort things I’ve adjusted to like air conditioning and microwaves, but you can keep the screaming, bitchy women that think I’m interested in their opinion and all the people that think the World owes them something. I enjoy a legal immigrant that works 16-20 hours a day to make a better life for his family. I have no sympathy for a 3rd generation welfare case that says they have it so bad or the liberal blow hard that support them. Drugs and crap like that aren’t an addiction, they are an excuse. Suck it up and get on with life or check out. Do the World a favor.

Just my opinion, I’m sure you have one also. We’ve got a lot of good men puttin their lives in harm’s way so you can have one.

Dave Whellum said:
There has been a movement in this country by some of the Muslim immigrants to get the Government to change the law so they can have more than one wife. This is not the first thing they wish to change and wont be the last. If you have the courage to adopt a new country to escape problems in your own why would you want to change it into what you left? I can only wonder. Dave
Sheeeeeesh what are they thinking? It is hard enough with one SWMBO, the only advantage with multiples would be ........... hey now I get it, it's a diversion! Have several, they'll be busy bickering amongst themselves and TKOC is left in peace! ;) :P ;) :lol:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Dave Whellum said:
There has been a movement in this country by some of the Muslim immigrants to get the Government to change the law so they can have more than one wife. This is not the first thing they wish to change and wont be the last. If you have the courage to adopt a new country to escape problems in your own why would you want to change it into what you left? I can only wonder. Dave
Sheeeeeesh what are they thinking? It is hard enough with one SWMBO, the only advantage with multiples would be ........... hey now I get it, it's a diversion! Have several, they'll be busy bickering amongst themselves and TKOC is left in peace! ;) :P ;) :lol:
Or they get together and organize a coup. Ralph

I think the point here is that we are “American” or “Canadian” or “Australian” or Swiss, etc., first.

I am an American of Scotch-Irish, Norwegian descent. While I love and respect my European heritage I will never be a “Scotch-Irish, Norwegian American”. It’s more than mere semantics. It’s an attitude and an affirmation of where my loyalties lay and of who I am.

As for TR what is quoted above from him is exactly why I believe he does belong with Washington and Lincoln. If we adopt a country as our own, as our home, do we not also owe it our loyalty? If we are born to a country and live there and accept its ideals and protection do we not also owe it our loyalty? I see nothing wrong in any of the demands TR placed either on the immigrant or on the citizens. That’s not to say that we owe that same loyalty to any particular politician but we do owe him our support when he is trying to do right as much as our opposition when we feel he’s doing wrong.

I would never presume to immigrate to another country without being willing to give that country my top priority and to respect its traditions and institutions. That doesn’t mean I’d have to hate or disavow my country of origin but other than taking up temporary residence I feel I would owe my new country first loyalty or why move in the first place?

Ralph Berg said:
Dave, You don’t refer to yourself as a “American Australian”, do you? From what I gathered from your previous posts, you have assimilated yourself in the Australian culture. If you were in Paris and someone asked where you were from…would you answer Australia? Ralph

That’s a terrific question. I can’t answer for Paris - never been there. When the question is asked in Australia, it’s invariably to confirm whether I’m American or Canadian. My accent has persisted over the decades. Nobody here has ever taken me for a home-grown Aussie. When the question is asked in the US, I’ve always been at pains to point out my dual nationality. I can recall only one person taking exception to that over many years of travelling between the two countries, and it took the form of “Why would anyone choose to live anywhere except the USA?” I asked the gentleman if he’d ever lived in, or visited, Australia. He said he hadn’t, and had no intention of doing so. That was the end of that. Ric’s comment that “We just don’t have enough people that have strong enough confictions to leave when they dislike how things are here” is a bit of a worry. If folks have strong convictions, hopefully they’ll stay and fight for those convictions. Good luck to them - that’s what democracy is all about. That said, if a bloke is convinced about the merits of polygamy, it’s also a bit of a worry. Any man who can’t see that two women will be at least three times as expensive as one needs a refresher course in simple arithmetic. However, HJ presents a valid argument re the possible benefits of a multiplier effect, so I may have to reconsider my position! Unfortunately, I will never be able to make an empirical judgment on HJ’s hypothesis. As Alec Guinness said in the first Star Wars movie, “I’m getting too old for this kind of thing.” Kay is Australian, born in Melbourne, raised in Perth. I’m sure she would have emigrated to the US if I’d pressed the issue, but it didn’t occur to me 30+ years ago. We both thought Perth was a great place to raise a family. We chose to live here because it was the best thing for us, not because I have any axe to grind with the US. I did raise the issue of emigration with my wife a few years back, when I was working in the US. However, the high cost of health care in the US compared to Oz was sufficient deterrent for both of us. Richard’s comment is interesting, and deserves a considered response: “I would never presume to immigrate to another country without being willing to give that country my top priority and to respect its traditions and institutions. That doesn’t mean I’d have to hate or disavow my country of origin but other than taking up temporary residence I feel I would owe my new country first loyalty or why move in the first place?” Richard, I think the operative terms in your comment are “top” and “first”. Moving between America and Australia over the decades, I’ve never felt the need to use either word. When in the US, I paid US taxes and voted in US elections - ditto in Oz. I try to stay informed about the political and economic affairs of both countries. America and Australia are such close allies that I find it well-nigh impossible to conceive of a situation where I’d have to choose one over the other. I can’t answer the question, “Why move here in the first place?” The best I can offer is a young man’s itch to explore. I sure do know why I stayed.

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj307/healydj/OnthePatioCropped.jpg)

Richard,

You said - “I would never presume to immigrate to another country without being willing to give that country my top priority and to respect its traditions and institutions. That doesn’t mean I’d have to hate or disavow my country of origin but other than taking up temporary residence I feel I would owe my new country first loyalty or why move in the first place?”

Isn’t that all part of the problem with the “its all about me” generation, that feel that someone else will care if they are gone? People that greatly announce if this happens, this is what I plan to do - need to have the conviction to carry out the promises or threats. Nobody gives a rat’s behind whether or not they do it. My maternal grandfather had a great statement that I always keep close - “if you think you are so important, stick your hand in a bucket of water and notice the big hole that is left when you pull it out”.

Most of our politicians share this exaggeration of their self-importance. Their narcissistic attitude of sharing their greatness with the world is really quite humorous.

Dave,
You probably will never need to make a break with one country or the other, hopefully. When living in the US I’m sure you respected its laws and called it home but now you live in Australia as I presume a citizen of that country. Shouldn’t your first loyalty be to your chosen country, your home? It doesn’t need to be a rebuke of the country you left behind but rather a most positive accomodation for the place in which you live and that provides your living and security. It’s not a question of what country is “best” of course as that’s a silly argument anyway. Like art it’s in the eyes of the beholder not to mention those things with which we are familiar and leave fond memories.

I believe I could be quite happy living in Australia or Canada or the UK but my memories are here. So here I’ll stay. By that I don’t mean to criticize your decision in the slightest. My maternal grandparents immigrated from Norway around 1910 and my Scotch-Irish ancestors have been here from colonial times. They mostly loved their places of origin but chose instead a new life where they could be happier and better pursue their dreams. From the picture you posted it looks as though you’ve found and achieved your dreams as well. What more could anyone ask?

Ric,
I agree with you on too much “me” in our society. It’s a sad fact that no matter the form of government, power is most attractive to those with big egos and an enlarged sense of self. Idealy we should be voting for public servants not “leaders”. For people that genuinely want to serve others and not themselves. But short of instituting a draft of people for public office how could we possibly sift through all the self-servers to find them and then who would make the selections? It’s a dilemma as old as civilization.

As long as people are imperfect government will be also even when at its best. There is hope though. When I see the self-sacrifice willingly given by our young people in the military I see what we need in government. It’s ironic that those that are paid the least, are usually given the least status in society and have the toughest jobs are the most dedicated and most willing to give their all for the country. A soldier is willing to put his very life on the line to complete his mission and save his buddies. How many politicians are willing even to put their much less important careers on the line for the country? And they get all the gravy!

I wish I had the answers but I don’t. Of course that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t keep trying. I do love your grandfather’s analogy of the bucket of water. It’s oh so true. I’ll have to bore you sometime with my “ant analogy”. Personal ego can be so humorous. I guess that’s why I’ve always had a special fondness for satire. :slight_smile:

Ralph Berg said:
And there are a few things I would change if I could. That being said.......It does annoy me when people from "other" parts of the country retire here and then do their best to change things so it is like where they came from.

Ralph


We have the same problem here. One newspaper editor calls them “encroachers”. They seem to feel that their idea of utopia is moving to the country. Then reality sets in. Farmers tilling and harvesting their fields till the wee hours of the morning. Spreading the fertilizer from the barn floor on a hot summer afternoon. Cows that make a god-awful racket as it nears milking time. The Amish that live around here seem to have the right idea. They post big signs on their property along the roads with warnings; Caution! Night Noises; Caution! Bad Smells; Caution! Slow moving vehicles.

Causes the developers to have a heart attack…:wink: