I just read Ted’s treatise on attaching the Kadee 830 to Aristo’s 100 Ton Hopper and I’ scratching my head as to why he wants to put the aluminum “J” clip in between the coupler and the hopper.
I read the words, but it still seems like overkill.
Has anyone tried it without the “J” Strip and had the application fail?
Steve… looks to me like the J clip is there, to hold the truck frame straight, and not allow it to sag under a load… I’m thinking that possibly the frmae where the coupler mounting is would sag under a load, since the frame at that point is no attched to the end upright of the car…
Just my thoughts…
Steve, stop scratching your head and listen to Ted, He’s a great guy and FULLY understands how to make things work correctly… 
Mine running after Teds fix.
OK, but what does the aluminum do?
Steve, if I’m reading the following copy and pasted statement correctly, it is a reinforcement precaution. In case there is any flex in a somewhat weak area.
“The reason for fabricating a “J” clip is to assure proper floor alignment with the car’s end by attaching the car’s projecting plastic floor strips to the ends of the car. This also serves to prevent flexing of the floor strip when operating the car in long, heavy trains”
Dave Marconi said:
Steve, if I'm reading the following copy and pasted statement correctly, it is a reinforcement precaution. In case there is any flex in a somewhat weak area.“The reason for fabricating a “J” clip is to assure proper floor alignment with the car’s end by attaching the car’s projecting plastic floor strips to the ends of the car. This also serves to prevent flexing of the floor strip when operating the car in long, heavy trains”
What David and Andy said, just stiffins things up for long trains.
OK, so I’m looking at the website of one of the local purveyors of aluminum, trying to figure out which grade of aluminum to purchase.
2024 is probably a no starter as it is susceptible to corrosion
6061 is used for screws, bicycles and and camera mounts, so that might be a bit much.
7075 is used for aerospace, commercial aircraft, defense equipment (read M-16 and CIWS) and components and in the space shuttle. I don’t think I need anything with that much testosterone.
5052 seems to be used in many applications requiring strength and good formability at reasonable cost. Its major use seems to be cooking pots and the like.
Ideas?
Andy Clarke said:Dave Marconi said:
Steve, if I'm reading the following copy and pasted statement correctly, it is a reinforcement precaution. In case there is any flex in a somewhat weak area.“The reason for fabricating a “J” clip is to assure proper floor alignment with the car’s end by attaching the car’s projecting plastic floor strips to the ends of the car. This also serves to prevent flexing of the floor strip when operating the car in long, heavy trains”
thank you Hollywood, cause steve didn’t read what I wrote…
BTW, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot is a “frmae?” 
Steve, again what I get from Ted’s writing is the aluminum that is sold at the local hardware store. It is usually sold in strips, sheets, and angles. I doubt you’ll need any special high strength material, so from your choices above, it will probably be the 5052 variety that you’ll find. Me, I’d just use the first piece I found that fit the bill, even if it rusts it will outlast my use. 
Andy Clarke said:Dave Marconi said:
Steve, if I'm reading the following copy and pasted statement correctly, it is a reinforcement precaution. In case there is any flex in a somewhat weak area.“The reason for fabricating a “J” clip is to assure proper floor alignment with the car’s end by attaching the car’s projecting plastic floor strips to the ends of the car. This also serves to prevent flexing of the floor strip when operating the car in long, heavy trains”
thank you Hollywood, cause steve didn’t read what I wrote…
Well since my name was brought into it…Personally I feel the aluminum is nothing more than a spacer (as reading from Teds notes) I don’t really see how it could be a stiffner for long trains the way it is mounted, now if it was mounted someway behind the coupler (towards the middle of the car) then OK but the U-bend going up over the front rail servers no purpose in structural integrity IMO? So I agree with Steve …“what is the aluminum for” …Ted’s writing…
The long leg of the “J” clip also provides some of the shim height needed to properly space the coupler. (The Kadee coupler box assembly will need to be spaced a total of about 0.160 inches in order for the car to have the coupler align to the correct coupler height of the Kadee 880 reference gauge.)
One would think that an 1/8th inch of plastic in the spacer would give all the stiffness needed.
Steve, the spacer would allow for the coupler to be at the right height, however, there is nothing on the end of the frame, holding it to the end posts of the hopper… those are 2 different pieces… My thoughts are that the end of the frame & coupler would sag, just like Truck mounted couplers sag when hauling a heavy load and occassionally uncouple… The pictures I see of the aluminum J piece is that it rests over the end car graming, and then goes back down under the car frame, and gets attached with the Coupler mounting screws… Thus, limiting the distance that the end of the car frame could lower during heavy loads… To me, it’s just a way of strengthening the frame and end car posts, to make it seem as one piece…
Guys, did you read the article by Ted, it explains why the bracket is there, it secures part of the body that flexes under load. From Ted: Hi Greg, Also, I noticed on Large Scale Central, Steve Featherkile has brought my name up and wondered why I made a “J” clip for the Aristo 100 ton hoppers with respect to Kadee coupler box mounting. Link: http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=17020 I am not a member of LSC, so I won’t reply, but I don’t understand why it can’t be visualized that the the “J” part of the clip envelopes over the cross rib at the lower part of the end bulkhead of the car, thereby, aligning and securing the under frame “tang” to it - tying the whole thing together. Two pictures in my Vignette should make it clear how the “J” clip envelopes the cross rib. Picture Links below:
Clip envelopes over cross rib:
Vignette Link: http://www.elmassian.com/trains/ted-doskaris-vignettes/aristo-100-ton-hopper-a-kadees
Yes, Greg, I read Ted’s article, which is why I asked the question, I don’t understand why the J bracket is necessary when the frame of the car is “beefed up” with all of that extra material.
I feel like I am back in the third semester of The Calculus when the professor says “As you can see, it is empirically obvious to the most casual observer that…” and then goes on to skip three or four steps of the solution.
Something is missing from the solution…
Ask Ted to check his PM’s on Aristo’s Forum, please. I’ve tried to get ahold of him before, but without success.
I’m with ya’ on this one Steve
The end of the frame is not strong enough to resist flexing up and down, and it is not attached to the body.
So it will move up and down, bad thing for couplers… as was quoted before Ted mentions the exact reasons.
The J clip secures the frame to the body.
I cannot understand what the difficulty is. Is it because you are assuming the frame is already strong enough, and does not deflect? Also, since it’s not attached, it’s not always at the same distance from the rails, thus preventing a good installation of a body mount coupler.
Greg
I just noticed the title: why are you ‘attacking’ Kadees ???
Victor Smith said:Because, when I wrote that, I had a finger in a splint, and missed the landing field. :P
I just noticed the title: why are you 'attacking' Kadees ??? ;) ;) ;)
