Large Scale Central

Tank trains versus Inter M trains.

General Discussion
#1

As far as G scale is concerned, I like the look of a inter M train, but modern tank cars also look really cool.
However, as many of you are aware, both these type cars can cost upwards of 200 to 300 bucks a piece and when you want “prototypical”, as in realistic, we are talking about 25 to 50 or more cars to achieve that sort of realism. I like model railroading but…LOL

Anyway, I was wondering how far you all would go to make the perfect railroad? What sort of cars do you think make a railroad look realistic? Also, what about lash ups? As in modern engine lash ups. I know I am looking at lashing up three individual BNSF engines to pull between 25 to fifty cars. That’s allot of doe running the rails and in a three rail main line railroad, such as the one I plan on replicating, that is allot of equipment to purchase.

Lottery perhaps? LOL

:slight_smile:

#2

“…these type cars can cost upwards of 200 to 300 bucks a piece …”

maybe with s/h/i/cbsa-cpo total charges into north of the 49th and other dest. outside the continental usa !

hmmm i see south of the 49th $124ea. for the ‘modern’ tankers, or sets of 3 intermodal cars 142/ea car

Are you buying direct from a manufacturer ?

btw How much would you pay for brass track … it was available for 6.25cdn/ft at this past weekend at ST’14 … and likely not much more on reg. days from the Cdn. vendor !

It does not sound like you’re really shopping/ researching round, imho.

good luck though.

#3

Well Stacy,

The old saw “One can’t be careful enough how one picks one’s parents” applies here with a slight modification. “One can’t be careful enough when one picks a prototype and a theme.”

Naturally I have a bias i.e. IMO it’s hard to beat a mountain railroad with Mixed Manifest trains. Tighter curves, mostly single track on wooden ties, up and down. Since one can hardly ever see the whole train at once a 20-25 car unit train looks “almost endless”, but a mix of cars in the same train length gives the impression of being even longer. Either way, it will take plenty of dough to assemble those trains.

Other than intermodal and tankers you can/could add grain unit trains, coal trains, sulphur unit trains, potash unit trains.

The sky’s the limit and “He with the most toys (trains) wins.”

#4

Stacey,

Barring the cost, I feel you are talking a LARGE layout to accommodate that large a train. My club layout has an outer loop that is just short of 400’. One of our members ran his USA Big Boy with 65 Aristo short covered hoppers and although the train was in actuality about 100’ long, it sure appeared that the engine was chasing the caboose.

If you would like to get a better concept of the size of the train you are referring to, check out this video of the Palo Verde and Southwestern. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhQMqKl38wU

Happy Railroading!

Bob C.

#5

Im the wrong person for this as Im not much of a diesal guy. I like to operate a small backwoods line. This allows me to build stuff out of the shops, who knows something like it could have been built back in the days. I just like to have fun and build things that could be believable. Im not really into long trains. To me it takes too much time loading everything and then having derailment and uncoupling issues. I see it all the time at club meets. It drives me crazy because it takes away from socializing and running trains. You would also need a large layout to get that protypical look. That brings a lot more maintenance.

#6

Bob Cope said:

Stacey,

Barring the cost, I feel you are talking a LARGE layout to accommodate that large a train. My club layout has an outer loop that is just short of 400’. One of our members ran his USA Big Boy with 65 Aristo short covered hoppers and although the train was in actuality about 100’ long, it sure appeared that the engine was chasing the caboose.

If you would like to get a better concept of the size of the train you are referring to, check out this video of the Palo Verde and Southwestern. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhQMqKl38wU

Happy Railroading!

Bob C.

Thank Bob.

Yes, this can be a real expensive deal, but I am after accuracy as near as I will be able to afford it and achieve it. Of course this will be outdoors and that issue will be based upon where I relocate in the future. Land will be a strong consideration obviously. As will cost and availability of the double stacks. The look I am going for is seen in as many BNSF pictures out west where double stack Inter M. trains move through the desert like a rattle snake. I spent allot of time out west and have enough pictures to achieve the look and perhaps even the feel of a true desert scenic railroad typical of the last decade to the present day.

I will likely run three BNSF Dash 9’s with three different road numbers to head a double stack of about 50 plus cars. At between 150 and 200 hundred dollars a piece for each car, I am aware this will not be cheap, but cheap is not my middle name. I want something truly special. Something unique that I can be proud of. As for my original question, I will also likely have a tank train using perhaps several SD70Macs. Probably between 25 and 40 cars. Again, very expensive, but this is what I desire and as the old saying goes…“I mean to have it”

#7

…and after that train has gone “Roundy-Roundy” many times, and boredom or frustration sets in…WHAT ELSE DOES IT DO…

Try a smaller pike, modeling a shortline or branch line; throw in some hands on operation, and the interest level lasts longer…

…at least that’s what we have found, over many years of operations every Saturday morning, where at least 15-20 people show up to have fun.

Whatever you do…enjoy, but make sure you keep the frustration and boredom to a minimum, over the long term.

#8

Living in the UK and finding it unacceptable, for one or two reasons, to pay high prices for big boys toys, I opted for a 1950’s to 1970’s short line which bridges two Class 1’s.

All the previous posts have great merit in what they say and my own take on this is that way freights/mixed manifest trains do add a great interest especially when switching or re-ordering the consists. Short coal trains are another favourite of mine.

My railroad is small compared many seen on this Forum but as it meanders around the back yard plants and bushes create an illusion which masks the true size of it all. Even a small railroad can be made larger by the inclusion of industrial leads and spurs plus a track to put a train ‘into the hole’. Not having space for a village or town I make use of larger structures placed in strategic parts of the pkie.

As Fred says, whatever is promoted or acheived enjoyment and hobby fulfiment must be the principal aim. If you just want to watch trains then save your money and a lot of hard, construction work and buy a computer train programme. lol

#9

I don’t think there’s any way around it. If you really want to run long, modern trains, you’re going to be spending significant cash. What you CAN do is be a savvy shopper. Research to find the best prices. You may have to wait for something to go on sale, and when it does, buy up as many of that item as you can.

Depending on your budget you might have to spread out your purchases rather than trying to get everything at once. On the other hand, if you have the dough you might be able to negotiate a better price for a large order.

#10

Fred Mills, BSc, BS, SD said:

…and after that train has gone “Roundy-Roundy” many times, and boredom or frustration sets in…WHAT ELSE DOES IT DO…

Try a smaller pike, modeling a shortline or branch line; throw in some hands on operation, and the interest level lasts longer…

…at least that’s what we have found, over many years of operations every Saturday morning, where at least 15-20 people show up to have fun.

Whatever you do…enjoy, but make sure you keep the frustration and boredom to a minimum, over the long term.

Well you see Fred that is where you are wrong. I’ll never ever get board watching my home made rattler moving through my desert creation. Everyone has their own thing. I never meant to imply that short lines with mixed freight is not fun or exciting. It is. In many ways, I envy those of you that really know how to create such intricate and beautiful representations of their bigger cousins. Switching is simply fun to do and it gives model railroaders allot of satisfaction to do it. It is just not for me. Which does not mean I don’t respect others opinions, but I know what I want and I mean to get it.

…and yes, I’ll enjoy every moment of it all. We only live once! :slight_smile:

#11

Ray Dunakin said:

I don’t think there’s any way around it. If you really want to run long, modern trains, you’re going to be spending significant cash. What you CAN do is be a savvy shopper. Research to find the best prices. You may have to wait for something to go on sale, and when it does, buy up as many of that item as you can.

Depending on your budget you might have to spread out your purchases rather than trying to get everything at once. On the other hand, if you have the dough you might be able to negotiate a better price for a large order.

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Budgets are not only a serious concern, but they are central to the whole concept of creating an outdoor empire. I cannot snap my fingers and poof I have 50 Inter M cars or Tanker Cars, but threw time, patience and yes some savvy buying, I will have all the cars I need when I get ready to create this little empire of mine. There are stores/hobby centers that give discounts on large orders and that is a route I will surely follow. The locomotives, ironically, are the easiest purchase. The freight cars and track is what is really expensive. The landscaping, well, it will be a desert environment. Cacti, sage brush, rocks, gravel, sand etc. Not much to it. Power options are obviously a concern as well. I will need allot of power to navigate such a train through the distances I am considering creating. Anyway, it will be fun.

#12

I really like intermodials, thats why I built my own spine car set, 200 bucks a car is not feasible when I can do a 3 car set for less then that scratchbuilt

#13

I like Inter M’s too. I think it is a sign of modern railroading at it best. Though I can understand why some model railroaders don’t like it because it may be boring watching the same type cars going by ad nauseam. LOL Scratch built is really cool. I may do that if I can re enter into my long unused skills as a model builder. I love making things from scratch and have great respect for those that do. I might be able to ring out a few Inter M cars for around 100 bucks a piece with containers. Many guys just get rid of them on EBay.

#14

Getting what you want at the price you’re willing to pay just takes patience and a bit of luck. The one engine I had on my “must-have” list took five years. Two years ago I picked up another one of that type but the wrong colour. I ordered a replacement body (dealer special) to get a second green one; that was even less money than the first. As I say, patience and luck.

#15

Switching can be fun and thoughtful. Roundy-roundy also has its place. It is great if you have gardening or other outdoor tasks to do. I do most of my modeling outdoors - light is good and the trains go by. lol

#16

Stacy remember ROME wasn’t built in a day, and like a large RR it takes tiime to acquire. Most of us began with a starter set loop.
A modern train to me is a mile of intermodals and tankers but like you have pointed out the cost is crazy. Another thought is the terminus at the end of the run. You will need sidings that are 50+ feet long. The cost for everything on a modern line including maintenance is way above a smaller backwoods arrangement. I want you to be running trains and having fun sooner than later.
There is a phrase in model RR that serves us all well, “Selective Compression” which means instead of a 100 car train you have a 50 car and instead of miles you have feet of track and in the case of buildings they get scaled down to fit where they need to go.

I wonder if you built a dogbone shapped RR with a long siding inbetween the 2 mainlines with 20’ loops at both ends if you could replicate what you are looking for without spending huge bucks on track then you would have more left over for equipment. Just a thought. Scratchbuilding is a great.

#17

Was at a garden this weekend that started out with small backwoods stuff, but now includes Dash 9s, a Mallet and… some containers.

He wanted to put ALL the cars on and see if his new dash 9s could pull them. When the train got to the “high” end, “Where are the containers?”

They’d been left behind at this scenic covered bridge which wasn’t tall enough for those modern cars to go through. I proposed blowing up the bridge.

#18

Todd Haskins said:

Stacy remember ROME wasn’t built in a day, and like a large RR it takes tiime to acquire. Most of us began with a starter set loop.
A modern train to me is a mile of intermodals and tankers but like you have pointed out the cost is crazy. Another thought is the terminus at the end of the run. You will need sidings that are 50+ feet long. The cost for everything on a modern line including maintenance is way above a smaller backwoods arrangement. I want you to be running trains and having fun sooner than later.
There is a phrase in model RR that serves us all well, “Selective Compression” which means instead of a 100 car train you have a 50 car and instead of miles you have feet of track and in the case of buildings they get scaled down to fit where they need to go.

I wonder if you built a dogbone shapped RR with a long siding inbetween the 2 mainlines with 20’ loops at both ends if you could replicate what you are looking for without spending huge bucks on track then you would have more left over for equipment. Just a thought. Scratchbuilding is a great.

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True enough Todd. One must balance between what is possible for what is practical. I believe my goal(s) to be both realistic and attainable. I like a dog bone shaped layout. I have seen it done with Z,N,HO,O,G and even Narrow Gage. Almost all looked cool and very functional. As far as equipment, well a fleet of Dash 9’s and SD70Macs as well as a few older diesels in the mix will likely set me back a few thousand, but it is the cars and track that will cost far more. Honestly, I am not trying to out do myself here. I really want a first rate display of modern no BS railroading as seen by BNSF, UP, CSX and NS as well as some smaller shorter lines. That’s it. In a nutshell. :slight_smile:

#19

Tom Ruby said:

Was at a garden this weekend that started out with small backwoods stuff, but now includes Dash 9s, a Mallet and… some containers.

He wanted to put ALL the cars on and see if his new dash 9s could pull them. When the train got to the “high” end, “Where are the containers?”

They’d been left behind at this scenic covered bridge which wasn’t tall enough for those modern cars to go through. I proposed blowing up the bridge.

This sounds an awful lot like a You Tube video I once saw in which this Dash 9 was pulling some Inter M cars and when it passed under this bridge, it took some containers off and derailed the whole mess. LOL
I did not know whether to laugh or cry. After all, that could have been me. Imagine me blustering and talking up a real big deal about this co called BNSF line to only have it fail by not making real sure the bridge heights are such that the containers can pass under safely.LOL

Anyway, your posting reminded me of that video. I couldn’t find it or otherwise I would have posted it here.

#20

I understand having what you want Stacy, but I also know the value of starting small and building on. I once had a massive (to me) N scale empire that never even came close to being finished. It was just way too much for me to keep up with. So my “garden” railroad started small and may expand at a future date. I have a small stockpile of track I have been adding too as deals come along.

I respect and cheer on your grand vision, but don’t become so fixated on that vision that you don’t have fun. If you wait too long to play with your toys, you may become disenchanted and move on to another hobby. Its happened to folks before.

Tom, that is why my first Saw Mill Run Bridge was so tall. I measured how tall my Bachmann Shay is, and added a few inches to it. Then I built my bridge to that height. I didn’t want to repeat the error that so many others had made. When the heavy snows destroyed that bridge several years later, its replacement was built a bit shorter, but still tall enough that everything I have could run through it with room to spare.