Large Scale Central

Switching "The Hole"

Operations
#1

Since Bruce and others are posting a few switching puzzles and getting us all thinking, I decided to post one of the industries that I used to switch in Seattle.

Task- Switch Midtown Investment/Cargil Aka “The Hole”

Track Names 1610- Sugar Track, 7 spots 1-7 North to South

1604- Steam Track 7 spot, 1-8 North to South

1601- Odem Lead- “Sluff” track, order of cars do not matter.

1602 –Industrial Lead –Engine is idling light

The head end room is unlimited on track 1602/2620

Hanford St. is North.

Can’t shove past Horton St, as Rainier has full spots (don’t switch today). You can place 2 cars on Horton St before you run into the gate at Rainier, but you can’t leave both Horton & Hanford St. blocked for more than 10 minutes.

Sugar & Steam are both exactly 7 cars lengths long.

I’ll start with an easy day….

The pulls stay on 1602 with the engine after everything is done.

TRK 1601 ODOM LEAD

Spot to STM 1 1 VTGX 17459

Spot to SUG 2 2 PRGX 10146

Spot to STM 6 3 CRGX 6073

4 NATX 190111

5 CRGX 5673

6 NATX 190095

7 SHPX 202811

8 CRGX 6238

9 SHPX 202766

TRK 1604 CARGILL STEAM

Spot to SUG 1 1 TILX 170310

Spot to STM 3 2 VTGX 17096

Spot to STM 4 3 VTGX 17495

Spot to STM 5 4 TILX 170405

Spot to SUG 5 5 CRGX 6612

Spot to STM 7 6 PRGX 10205

Spot to SUG 6 7 CRGX 6443

TRK 1610 CARGILL SUGAR

Spot to SUG 3 1 SHPX 202876

Spot to SUG 4 2 CRGX 6360

PULL 3 VTGX 17108

PULL 4 VTGX 17418

PULL 5 VTGX 17109

PULL 6 CRGX 5101

Spot to SUG 7 7 PRGX 10467

Map & Pictures

#2

Wow. That looks like a cool spot to switch, but now I’m officially confused (just in case someone might have thought otherwise). I’m not even sure I understand the terminology.

But, I will be the guy that starts asking the stupid questions. (As a former instructor we always used to say there’s no such thing as a stupid question…but we would always silently think ‘But, you get an “A” for effort’.)

First what does this mean: Spot to STM 1 1 VTGX 17459… and that is followed by many such lines that also include SUG # and other STM #.

I suspect it’s probably the “official” way to annotate a switch list, but I’m sure confused. (Oh, wait, I think I already mentioned that…(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-embarassed.gif))

#3

Hey Bruce you’re not alone. It doesn’t help that I can’t see Craig’s pictures at work. I have to resort to the small screen on my cell. One thing I do get is that the STM abbreviation is for “steam track” and SUG is “Sugar Track”. The second part of the line IE: “1 VTGX 17459” I’m thinking is maybe the car manufacturer and type?

From the list I’m not really sure what’s coming in on the train, Just the cars called out to be spotted? Also confusing to me are the single digit prefix and suffix for each half of every line.

Clearly I’m in over my head too. Not the first time. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-yell.gif)Can you dumb it down a bit for us rookies Craig?

#4

Somehow, I think the right hand list is giving you the “Reporting Marks”, and car numbers. the first number is not needed as it just gives the number of cars going to the sidings, or being picked up.

The left hand list, shows what siding, and location on the siding the cars are on, and whether the car is to be picked up or dropped. SUG means SUGAR…the company who’s siding it is.

Our RailOp switch lists appear much more simple…but whatever turns your crank…

Fred Mills

#5

Bruce Chandler said:

Wow. That looks like a cool spot to switch, but now I’m officially confused (just in case someone might have thought otherwise). I’m not even sure I understand the terminology.

But, I will be the guy that starts asking the stupid questions. (As a former instructor we always used to say there’s no such thing as a stupid question…but we would always silently think ‘But, you get an “A” for effort’.)

First what does this mean: Spot to STM 1 1 VTGX 17459… and that is followed by many such lines that also include SUG # and other STM #.

I suspect it’s probably the “official” way to annotate a switch list, but I’m sure confused. (Oh, wait, I think I already mentioned that…(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-embarassed.gif))

Bruce,

This line “Spot to STM 1 Where car needs to go 1 Location as first out car on above track (Odem) VTGX 17459 Car Number” is saying that car number VTGX 17459 needs to go to the “Steam Track, spot 1” Its current location is the Odem Lead (see the drawing with just the last three car numbers).

The next car on the Odem lead shows “Spot to SUG 2 2 PRGX 10146” which means it needs to be spotted to Sugar 2, and it’s current location is the second car (North to South) on the Odem.

I can’t see my second picture here at work either, but I think that might help visualize the location of each of the cars, and help you read the list. By the way this switch list was copied exactly from a real list…

STM= Steam Track (1604) the number that follows “STM” indicates the spot order.

SUG= Sugar Track (1610)

Every car you need is on either the Steam, Sugar, or Odem Lead. Nothing else is needed.

I’ll explain this track in bold

TRK 1604 CARGILL STEAM All cars below are currently on Steam Track

Spot to SUG 1 1 TILX 170310 Currently on Steam, spot 1, needs to go over to Sugar spot 2

Spot to STM 3 2 VTGX 17096 Currently on Steam, spot 2, needs to go over to Sugar spot 3

Spot to STM 4 3 VTGX 17495 Currently on Steam, spot 3, needs to go over to Steam, spot 4

Spot to STM 5 4 TILX 170405 Currently on Steam, spot 4, needs to go over to Steam, spot 5

Spot to SUG 5 5 CRGX 6612 Currently on Steam, spot 5, stays on spot 5.

Spot to STM 7 6 PRGX 10205 Currently on Steam, spot 6, needs to go over to Steam, spot 7

Spot to SUG 6 7 CRGX 6443 Currently on Steam, spot 7, needs to go over to Steam, spot 6

Does this help?

#6

Craig,

With the questions asked, I think I have the terminology understood.

Because of the name Cargill, I’m guessing this is a grain elevator or some type of processing plant?

This engine is an assigned power source at this facility, so you are not bringing the train in with arrivals and departures? That is somebody else’s problems?

You can temporarily block the one street on all tracks, but never both streets at the same time. In other words, fire trucks and emergency vehicles have to be able to get through the area?

So does the Engineer and the Conductor or Switch man work out how they are going to do this before starting or is it a lets start pulling this string to get some space and see where we end up?

Does somebody walk the tracks and become the “car checker” before you start?

Do you discuss first or “just lets get started”?

Any discussion or critique after you’ve completed the job or is it well we got that done, I think?

#7

Ric Golding said:

Craig,

With the questions asked, I think I have the terminology understood.

Because of the name Cargill, I’m guessing this is a grain elevator or some type of processing plant?

This engine is an assigned power source at this facility, so you are not bringing the train in with arrivals and departures? That is somebody else’s problems?

You can temporarily block the one street on all tracks, but never both streets at the same time. In other words, fire trucks and emergency vehicles have to be able to get through the area?

So does the Engineer and the Conductor or Switch man work out how they are going to do this before starting or is it a lets start pulling this string to get some space and see where we end up?

Does somebody walk the tracks and become the “car checker” before you start?

Do you discuss first or “just lets get started”?

Any discussion or critique after you’ve completed the job or is it well we got that done, I think?

Ric,

The plant is a corn syrup transfer facility in downtown Seattle, Wa. No assigned power as the job that works the industry is the any afternoon switch job at Stacy St. Yard. Normal operations are either 4 axle power (GP’s or SW’s) or a SD40-2. The reason you don’t have arrivals/departures is because switch list is usually given as a move after beans. So before you go to beans, if you need cars out of the yard, you will grab them and set them over with the engine on the Industrial Lead. Otherwise you pull from the Odem. The reason you can’t block both streets is because of the truckers that need to get into the yard to deliver/pickup containers to/from the railyard to the docks.

Usually the crew gets the list in the yard office, and they spend anywhere from 10-20 minutes discussing how they are going to tackle the job. The crews that have worked the job a lot in the past, can make quick work. After everything has been pulled/spotted the crew goes back on break so the engine and cars stay on the Industrial Lead.

When the yardmaster gives you the list for the Hole it’s usually a big relief when it’s done! Depending on the experience of the crew and how much work needs to be done it can take 2 hours or 12 hours to work the Hole. The whole track is on a nice down hill grade, so the experienced crews will actually kick and drop cars from the Steam and Sugar tracks.

I’ll give you a hint, the first move should be to get the cars on the Odem on to the Industrial Lead. Put them in spot order for each track.

#8

Wow, truly interesting set of questions and answers guys. It seems it’s a very deep rabbit hole. (excuse the pun(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-embarassed.gif)) I can truly believe that it could take 12 hours. I had some time in figuring Bruce’s puzzle out, which seemingly is much less involved than this puzzle. I don’t think I’m going to try this one but I am looking forward to see what others come up with.

Fred: You’re correct in saying “what ever turns your crank” since as stated they are burning some diesel to get these cars moved. However, I prefer "what ever stokes your fire box! " (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)Although I have to admit I have a soft spot for SW’s.

#9

Randy,

I posted an easy day for switching the Hole. On some days you could switch 2-3 times the number of cars! It gets really complicated when you add Rainier (the next industry to the south, with 16 more additional spots). One of the things that I think makes this more interesting, complicated is that every single car looks the same so you really have to read car numbers instead of switching by car type.

The reason I posted this, was to see if anyone was up to the challenge, but secondly to show the complex switching moves can be accomplished with just a few turnouts. For example, Bruce could increase the complexity of switching by simply creating and labeling spot locations for each industry.

This job gets worked 7 days a week, and its a fairly important customer for the railroad.

I’ll post a solution in couple of days if none takes a bite.

#10

I did a “Google Earth” search on Stacey St., Seattle, Washington and then by pulling in found the cross streets., especially Haniford St. Railroad cars sitting at locations shows the difficult situation. Pretty intense.

#11

Ric Golding said:

I did a “Google Earth” search on Stacey St., Seattle, Washington and then by pulling in found the cross streets., especially Haniford St. Railroad cars sitting at locations shows the difficult situation. Pretty intense.

It’s a fun yard to switch at… At the north end you have crossings, and at the south end you have crossings! Before they changed the N. End crossing, it was tons of fun to switch prior, during, and after a football, soccer or baseball game. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-yell.gif)I know of at least two crews that cut of peoples legs trying to cross over the tracks.

The really, really fun thing is when an outbound stack train leaves the yard from the south end… They block all of the crossings, then go around the wye to face north and reblock all the same crossings! (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

My friend, and HO scaler is taking the idea of the “Hole” and building his HO layout just to replicate this. He and I went through conductor and engineer school together and often we working the opposite ends of Stacy.

http://www.gregamer.com/