Large Scale Central

Switching Equinox

Operations
#21

Dave Marconi said:

Interesting, but past frustrating. I figured I’d play with the challenge because each car has to be moved through the wye. In moving car #7 I used 12 moves. 3 or 4 cars total in one session not so bad but 9 cars would have most casual operators staying away from the site.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif) Just my two cents

Are you saying that every car has to get run around, or merely go through one leg of the wye? I think the only run around you have to make is to run the locomotive back around after everything is done. Now it would get more complicated if you had a facing point spot… But as it is everything can be switched out as a trailing point move.

#22

Craig, look carefully at the plan. The leg of the wye coming from the quarry is the only leg more than 1 car length. keeping that in mind tell me how many moves you need to make to add car 9 to your train caboose,1,2,3. Start by backing up the main to clear the switch for the wye( that move doesn’t count). Now add car 9 between car 3 and the loco.

#23

Bruce Chandler said:

They might be all trailing point, but you can’t get any cars out of the Warehouse track in a single move because the right wye tail is too short. My head hurts just looking at it!

#24

Dave Marconi said:

Craig, look carefully at the plan. The leg of the wye coming from the quarry is the only leg more than 1 car length. keeping that in mind tell me how many moves you need to make to add car 9 to your train caboose,1,2,3. Start by backing up the main to clear the switch for the wye( that move doesn’t count). Now add car 9 between car 3 and the loco.

My reasoning is why worry about the caboose and the position of car 9, when you need the caboose to shove down the 1/4 mile to spot the quarry. I’m not going to ride a car 1/4 mile each way, but I’ll ride a caboose. Maybe I’m not looking at it from the least number of moves, but the least amount of walking, riding cars. That’s why I say grab 9 first, then 6 &7. As you kick (switch) 6, 7, & 9 back to the main, the new order becomes 9, 7, 6 setting up 9 to be right ahead of 3,2,1 which all get spotted eventually. After 1,2, 3 are gone 9 is right next to the caboose. After everything has been spotted, you run light engine around the train (through the wye), ending with the engine next to the caboose, which can set over and switched out. Because you back the train back to the caboose at the end, you set up a situation where the brakeman can walk the set.

I’m not saying your method is wrong, or mine is right, but I may be approaching it from a railroader perspective verses a modelers perspective. The laziest switchman are often the best. In other words they make the train move to them, instead of having them walk all over the place.

If you want we can both figure out each step and see where we end up? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

Never mind, I see the plan now, I thought it said room for one car plus engine, not either or… I’ll still stick with pulling 9 as the first move and set it over in the space between the wye…

BTW shoving back counts as a move because the engine moves. “Count one move every time the engine starts”

#25

I was giving you that first move as a freebee. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

No contest, I enjoy the challenge. But this one would get frustrating quick. It can be done but the repetition of moves would wear down a ‘slinky’

And moving car 9 to the head of the train was just to get you to see that there was only room for one piece of rolling stock in each of the wye legs. Your leaving it where you wanted is up to you.

#26

Yeah, I sure agree; too tedious. You need to grab 9 first, as that seems to me to be the only lead that you can really use to get cars in and out - and that’s only using the left hand side of that wye.

Just thinking about getting 6 down to the quarry looks like a lot of moves. I’d probably push the whole train down past the quarry to free up all the track possible, but those wye ends that only hold one car or one loco would drive me crazy.

The title is very appropriate, but I prefer a little more room and a bit less switching. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)

#27

I agree. Moving “9” first seems to be the key.

A little less “thinkin” would be nice, too…(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#28

If I count correctly, its 4 moves to get the engine through the wye each time. Isn’t it 6 moves, just to get 9 down on to the main line? Let alone put any where.

#29

I think it’s only 4 to get 9 down.

  1. Backup train past switch.
  2. Throw switch, move forward to pick up 9.
  3. Couple, back up past switch.
  4. Move forward and drop 9.

Of course, I’m not sure that’s where I want it…

Just think of the number of moves of getting 6 and 7 down. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cry.gif)And 6 has to be moved to the quarry, so has to be on the other side of the engine.

Even without having any other cars in place, this would be …different? I suspect most folks would end up using the 0-5-0 switcher to complete the task.

#30

I was thinking you wanted 9 down the right leg, but maybe it doesn’t matter.

Bruce you said, " I suspect most folks would end up using the 0-5-0 switcher to complete the task."

If they feel that way, there’s nothing here to see folks move on. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

#31

Ric Golding said:

I was thinking you wanted 9 down the right leg, but maybe it doesn’t matter.

Bruce you said, " I suspect most folks would end up using the 0-5-0 switcher to complete the task."

If they feel that way, there’s nothing here to see folks move on. Pay no attention to the man behind the current.

How are you ever going to get 9 down the right leg? Part way, sure…but that tail at the end only holds the locomotive… (Am I current yet? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif))

#32

OK. Time to get a bit more serious. It’s not a track arrangement I would want on my layout unless I had too many people coming to an ops session. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)

But, it is still a good point for discussion. So, to make it easier to discuss, I’ve annotated the diagram a bit.

Tracks are lettered in BLUE. Switches in GREEN.

We really have only a few tracks:

  • Track #1. This is the continuation of the mainline from JackPine. It’s also the base of the wye.
  • Wye “L”. The left side of the wye. It leads up to the Freight Station (Track FS)
  • Wye “R”. The right side of the wye.
  • Wye “T”. The tail of the wye. Yes, there is another tail, but it is track FS.
  • FS Another tail of the wye, but also a destination - the Freight Station. This one seems to be key to me as it looks like a good way to move things out of WH.
  • WH - the Warehouse track. Also provides access to the cannery and Woodenware works.
  • MW - the Monument works track.

And not all that many switches. But they are all labeled in some sort of order.

Yeah, and there’s probably lots of non-logic here, but since we can’t see where you’re pointing I think this will have to do.

(Though I am tempted to back the train to Jackpine and turn in my resignation.)

Anyway, remember:

Pickups:

  • Cars 4, 7, and 9 go back to Jackpine as part of the train. Caboose on the rear, locomotive on the front.

Deliveries:

  • Car 1 goes to the Warehouse (Track WH)
  • Car 2 goes to the Freight Station (Track FS)
  • Car 3 goes to Woodenware Works (Track WH)

Transfers:

  • Car 5 goes to the Warehouse (Track WH)
  • Car 6 goes to the Quarry. (No, I didn’t ID that track. Get over it!)
  • Car 8 (in the Quarry) goes to Monument Works (Track MW)

And another set of rules:

  • The number in parentheses indicates the number of cars that can be held in that section of track. Note that the tails on the wye can hold either one engine OR one car.
  • You can put 1 other car on any turnout or crossing (unless you’re using it). This means that the track labeled ‘Wye “L”’ can actually hold 7 cars. Or 9 if you include the tail and the switch. AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGG.

Heh. Now what? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-embarassed.gif)

#33

  1. push train past quarry.

  2. up left leg of wye(llw) to 9

3)pull 9 1/2 way down llw

  1. cut loose from 9

  2. back out of wye

  3. ahead to wye T

  4. up right leg of wye (rlw) to FS

  5. down llw to 9

  6. push 9 out to track 1

  7. drop 9 and reverse to wye T

  8. up rlw onto WH lead to 7

How’s that

#34

I foresee a few more steps than that…(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-embarassed.gif)

#35

In fact, it seems like I have sort of a solution - with fewer steps than my initial estimate.

I really wish we had some kind of app that you could use to set up this simulation. I’m not really sure my steps work, as I changed my approach several times. Dead ends, anyone?

Anyway, good luck trying to follow this; I’m not sure I can even though I wrote it.

I tried to use alternate between backup and forward as appropriate, but I might have messed it up a few times.

I’m betting there’s a much more clever set of moves.

At any rate…my attempt:

  1. Pull the train forward to clear SW2.
  2. Backup and leave the caboose on track MW.
  3. Pull forward. Clear SW2.
  4. Back up and clear SW1 with 3,2,1.
  5. Pull forward. Clear SW2.
  6. Backup on MW. Couple to 4,5,C.
  7. Pull forward, clear SW2.
  8. Backup, dropping 4. (Now 3,2,1,4 on track to Jackpine).
  9. Pull forward on Wye “L”, coupling to 9.
  10. Backup, clearing SW1.
  11. Pull forward, leaving 9 on T1.
  12. Backup to clear SW1.
  13. Forward to FS.
  14. Backup on Wye “R”, clearing SW4.
  15. Forward on WH, coupling to 7.
  16. Backup clearing SW4.
  17. Forward, dropping 7 on FS.
  18. Uncouple. Backup on Wye “R” to Wye “T”.
  19. Forward to clear SW1.
  20. Backup to couple with 7 on FS.
  21. Forward to clear SW1.
  22. Backup to drop 7 on T1, coupling to 9 already on T1.
  23. Forward to clear SW1.
  24. Backup on Wye “L” to FS.
  25. Forward on Wye “R” to Wye “T”.
  26. Backup, pushing 7 & 9 to clear SW1.

Now, on the track to Jackpine, I have 3,2,1,4,7,9.
MW: 5,C
WH: 6

I’ve done the pickups. Now it’s time to do the transfers.
We’ll start with 6.
27. Forward on Wye “L” to FS.
28. Backup on Wye “R” to clear SW4.
29. Forward to couple with 6.
30. Backup to clear SW4.
31. Forward to drop 6 in FS.
32. Backup to Wye “T”.
33. Forward to clear SW1.
34. Backup on Wye “L” to pick up 6 at FS.
35. Forward on Wye “L” to clear SW1.
36. Backup on Track 1, clearing SW2 leaving 6 on Track #1.
I’d like to get 5 now, but I have to be able to move it to the warehouse, and I’m on the left side of 6. Crud. If I leave 6 here, I don’t see how I can move 5 to WH. Well, 6 has to end up at the quarry, let’s put 6 on the line to the quarry. But, first, I’m going to grab that caboose off of MW and stick it on to the end of 9 on Track #1 to Jackpine.
37. Forward on MW, coupling to the caboose.
38. Backup on MW to clear SW2.
39. Forward to clear SW1.
Now, on the track to Jackpine, I have 3,2,1,4,7,9,C.
MW: 5.
WH: 6.
Time to get 6 and move it towards the quary.
40. Backup on Track #1 to Wye “T”
41. Forward on WH to get 6.
42. Backup on WH clearing SW4.
43. Forward on Wye “R” to drop 6 at FS.
44. Backup on Wye “R” to Wye “T”
45. Forward on Track #1 to clear SW1.
46. Backup on Wye “L” to couple to 6 at FS.
47. Forward on Wye “L” to clear SW1.
48. Backup on Track #1, leaving 6 on Track #1.
Now get on the other side of 6 and push…
49. Forward on Track #1, clearing SW1.
50. Backup on Wye “L” to FS.
51. Forward on Wye “R” to Wye “T”.
52. Backup on Track #1, pushing 6 to clear SW1.

Now, on the track to Jackpine, I have 3,2,1,4,7,9,C,6.
MW: 5.
WH: Empty.
Finally we can think about moving 5 over to the warehouse.

  1. Forward on Track #1 clearing SW2.
  2. Backup on MW, coupling with 5.
  3. Forward on MW, clearing SW2.
  4. Uncouple 5, leave it on Track #1. Forward to Wye “T”.
  5. Backup Wye “R” to FS.
  6. Forward on Wye “L” clearing SW1.
  7. Backup on Track 1, coupling with 5.
  8. Forward on Track #1, clearing SW1.
  9. Backup on Wye “L”, leaving 5 at FS.
  10. Forward on Wye “L”, clearing SW1.
  11. Backup on Track #1 to Wye “T”.
  12. Forward on Wye “R” to couple with 5 at FS.
  13. Backup on Wye “R” clearing SW4.
  14. Forward on WH, leaving 5 at the Warehouse.

Whew. Now, lets put 6 in quarry, moving 8 out first, of course.
Now, on the track to Jackpine, I have 3,2,1,4,7,9,C,6.

  1. Backup on WH to Wye “T”.
  2. Forward on Track #1, pushing 3,2,1,4,7,9,6, past SW Q.
  3. Uncouple, Backup on Track #1, clearing SW Q.
  4. Forward coupling to 8.
  5. Backup, clearing SW Q.
  6. Forward coupling with train (3,2,1,4,7,9,C,6)
  7. Uncouple at 6. (Now have 6,8) Backup clearing SW Q.
  8. Forward, dropping 6 at quarry.
  9. Backup, pulling 8 to clear SW2 on Track #1.
  10. Forward, dropping 8 at Monument works.

Right now:
Quarry: 6
MW: 8
Warehouse: 5.
Train to Jackpine: 3,2,1,4,7,9,C

Finally. Done with the pickups and transfers.

Oh yeah, we still have some deliveries.

I’m going to split the train.
77. Backup on MW to clear SW2.
78. Forward on Track #1 to couple to train: (3,2,1,4,7,9,C)
79. Backup on Wye “L”. Split train between 1 and 4, leaving 3,2,1 left of SW1. 4,7,9,C continues to FS. Uncouple from train.
80. Forward on Wye “R” to Wye “T”.
81. Backup on Track #1 to couple with 3,2,1.
82. Forward with 3,2,1 clearing SW1. Uncouple and end up in Wye “T”.
83. Backup on Wye “R” to FS.
84. Forward on Wye “L”, pushing 4,7,9,C to clear SW1.

Right now:
Quarry: 6
MW: 8
Warehouse: 5.
Track #1: 3,2,1
Train to Jackpine: 4,7,9,C
Engine around SW1.

  1. Backup on Track #1 to couple with 3,2,1
  2. Forward on Track #1 clearing SW1.
  3. Backup on Wye “L”, leaving 1 at FS.
  4. Forward on Wye “L”, leaving 3,2 on Wye “L”, clearing SW1.
  5. Backup on Track #1 to Wye “T”.
  6. Forward on Wye “R” to couple with 1 at FS.
  7. Backup on Wye “R”, clearing SW4.
  8. Forward on WH, leaving 1 at Warehouse.
  9. Backup on WH, clearing SW4.
  10. Forward on Wye “R” to FS.
  11. Backup on Wye “L”, pushing 3,2 clearing SW1.
  12. Forward on Track 1 clearing SW1.
  13. Uncouple 3 from 2. Leaving 2 on Track 1, backup on Track 1, clearing SW1.
  14. Forward on Wye “L”, leaving 3 at FS.
  15. Backup on Wye “L”, clearing SW1.
    100.Forward on Track #1, coupling with 2.
    101.Backup on Track #1, clearing SW1.
    l02.Forward on Wye “L”, stop and uncouple 2.
    103.Backup on Wye “L”, clearing SW1.
    104.Forward on Track #1, ending at Wye “T”.
    105.Backup on Wye “R”, coupling with 3 at FS.
    106.Forward on Wye “R”, clearing SW4.
    107.Backup on WH, leaving 3 at Woodenware Works, ending at Wye “T”

Right now:
Quarry: 6
Monument Works: 8
Warehouse: 1.
Cannery: empty
Woodenware Works: 3
Track #1: 2
Train to Jackpine: 4,7,9,C
Engine around Wye “T”.

  1. Backukp on Track #1, pushing 2 to couple with 4,7,9,C.
  2. Forward on Track #1, clearing SW 1; uncouple from train, and continue to Wye “T”. (Track #1: 4,7,9,C,2)
  3. Backup on Wye “R” to FS.
  4. Forward on Wye “L” clearing SW1.
  5. Backup on Track #1 coupling with train: 4,7,9,C,2
  6. Forward on Track #1 clearing SW1.
  7. Backup on Wye “L”, dropping 2 at FS.
  8. Forward to Jackpine.
#36

Like I first posted. A total of three cars to switch out at any one time would be my limit because of the redundancy of moves(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

#37

Dave Marconi said:

  1. push train past quarry.

How’s that

This is what bothers me, and is Model Railroaders fault… They don’t think like a railroader. Why stop the full train at the depot to begin with? If you know your going into a situation where you have limited head end room, leave the train behind and run light engine to make your first move. If the train was staged outside of town, my first move might be to pull the quarry…

#38

I dunno. Just getting car #9 might be enough, then it’s time for a beer. Leave the rest for the next train?

#39

Nice work Bruce! But I can’t get a clear picture of 9 not being in the way during moves 12 and 22. But even so, much more than I’d want to go through I give you 1 reputation point and a thank you for that work

#40

Craig Townsend said:

Dave Marconi said:

  1. push train past quarry.

How’s that

This is what bothers me, and is Model Railroaders fault… They don’t think like a railroader. Why stop the full train at the depot to begin with? If you know your going into a situation where you have limited head end room, leave the train behind and run light engine to make your first move. If the train was staged outside of town, my first move might be to pull the quarry…

Would there be a possibility of the pick up list being at the station. Or a written change of orders there. Remember this puzzle was written way back when. Maybe before radio communications were on board?

I don’t know as I don’t run real trains