Large Scale Central

Switch Machine Project

Track and Trestles
#1

Hi LSC friends,

I’m used to MLS posting, but I would like to get used to posting here.

As some of you know, I have a lot of unfinished projects. But I can’t seem to prevent myself from starting a couple more. My apologies for not closing out prior endeavors, but I do intend to complete the switch machine & indication project.

This is related to that.

I’ve been contemplating an “ultimate” switch machine. Yes, I understand the virtues of pneumatics. Being a specialist in piping systems, I’d favor that. BUT. Given the electrical power available already in a rail-power system (DC or DCC), or almost as easily available as tubing (that is, sprinkler wiring, for an RC or LS layout), I’m interested in an electrical approach.

Furthermore, there are other things that may depend on an accurate reading of point position. Frog power, indication LED’s, signal LED’s, etc. An electrical approach might be better poised to meet such needs.

My hope and intent is to develop a switch machine that has the following characteristics.

  • Electronics fully sealed against weather and insects
  • Works with DCC, DC, or AC
  • Prime mover not visible or taking up space at trackside
  • Equipped with electrical contacts reacting to either end of travel, in an isolated hi-amp manner

As a nit, I’d like to add to this list a means of remotely enabling / disabling the indication contacts. This would require…

  • A wireless means of indication enablement
  • A dedicated set or indication contacts

I have a design for this, and have parts on order. If anyone’s interested, or has a question or remonstration, please chime in.

With best regards,

===>Cliffy

#2

Interesting project, looking forward to watch it progress.

For an ultimate switch machine for me, I’d like to add the ability to have lockable local control, like a CTC-controlled switch would have in real life. i.e. “Switch is under electrical control, unless specificially unlocked, then you can throw it manually from trackside”. In smaller scales, they simulate this with a control panel on the fascia near the switch. But for those of us outside, it would be neat to be able to actually throw the switch.

#3

Hi Bob, thanks very much for replying.

Would you settle for local control? I don’t grasp the outdoor system of CTC application, or what “lockable” means; but I do want to honor local override, i.e., local operation. Would a local and manually-operable switch suffice for what you are describing?

===>Cliffy

#4

Hi Cliffy, This sounds very useful, even to a live steam guy with no power in the rails. I’ll be watching you create your masterpice.

Also, I saw your name pop up here the other day and now have to ask, Are you CliffyJr from MLS that biult the beautiful concrete road bed layout?

#5

Hi Randy,

I see your name present everywhere on LSC, so thanks for your welcoming affirmation.

Those are very kind words, thanks! Yes, it was my concrete roadbed, and I’m glad someone else enjoyed that effort.

Having said that, please don’t expect this project to be a masterpiece, it might well be a lesson in crash and burn. But thank you for suggesting that it might succeed.

Best regards,

Cliff

#6

I’ll follow this project for sure; getting bullet proof switch motors for the outdoors would certainly be a dream come true.

#7

The method I propose to use relies on two technical aspects, the viablity of which is tbd.

The main mechanical element is remote power transmission, via translating cable. Specifically, 1/16th inch SS cable thru nylon tubing. Such is able to transmit quite sufficient force, in an undulating path.

Second, a servo and controller board. I am settling on the Tam Valley board which has numerous control capacities already baked in. The question I have is whether their 9G servo can fit in the package I’m designing, or whether I’ll have to go with a standard-size servo, such as an Hitech HS-311.

Not sure how to post a pic here, but thanks for reading.

Best,

Cliff

#8

Well Hans, I appreciate your welcome. Thanks for that.

#9

OK, I want to post a pic of the assembly, but don’t know how…

#10

Oh well.

#11

Use the insert image button (little button that looks like a mountain) and copy/paste the URL of the image. It’s pretty similar as the way to post pictures on MLS.

#12

Thanks Craig, I’ve been trying that, but I can’t figure out how to upload a pic and get its url.

Please splain.

#13

Are you hosting on a 3rd party website for your pictures on MLS? If so use the same process.

If not you can upload your pictures in your “Freight Shed”. 10meg limit for free users. Simply click on the “Freight Shed” button on the top header and you can up load pictures, PDF’s, or what ever you want as long as it is under the 10 meg limit (or support Bob with a donation and get more room). Then copy/paste the URL. I think there is instructions somewhere under the website section that explains better, and in more detail.

#14

Thanks Craig, I’ll look into that.

For now, here’s what I just posted on MLS, don’t know if it will work, but WTH.

Hi guys, thanks for responding.

The method I propose to use relies on two technical aspects, the viablity of which is tbd.

The first issue, and the main mechanical element, is remote power transmission via translating cable. Specifically, 1/16th inch SS cable thru nylon tubing. Some will call this a “choke cable.” Such is able to transmit quite sufficient force, in an undulating path.

This is the first issue. Pneumatics will have a tube going to a trackside actuator, which will take up a certain transverse volume. A cable-drive, however, will have a tube going to small trackside adapter.

This second question is the main one, that is, how to push-pull the cable. Yes, we can talk about how to seal the cable, and the glands, and the materials, but that’s easy and secondary crap. Once you solve the force transmission, you must next solve the actuator question.

I am going in the direction of a servo, actuated by a driver board. But, all in a sealed housing. I am settling on the Tam Valley board which has numerous control capacities already baked in.

A big question I have is if their 9G servo can produce sufficient force, when outfitted with a torque arm to produce .3" throw, and with sufficient force.

I might need to go with a standard-size servo, such as a Hitech HS-311. That would change everything in my design, because of its size. But if needed, so be it.

Here’s the basic box, as the design stands.

There are many details to this, so consider it an overview of something that may or may not work.

Here is how it would connect with the turnout.

I’ll post more, as the prototype progresses.

Thanks for viewing, best regards, and speak your mind,
===>CliffyJ

#15

OK, I checked the “Send me notifications” box to see replies. I can’t see how else to determine when someone replies to my posts, which is the main reason why I find LSC disconcerting. On MLS, you automatically see if someone replied to your thread, but here, you have to page and page and page until you recognize your thread’s title.

Someone splain an easier method please.

#16

Cliff, never underestimate rocks and other junk adding resistance to the system, as well as eventual wear on the inner liner of the “sheath”.

I’d design in the larger servo, should be a bit more resistant to damage, and can overcome sluggish switches.

The other thing I would design in would be some spring somewhere in the system to allow a couple of things:

  1. less precise positioning of the servo, and a bit of overtravel with the spring should ensure good closure without precision settings on the servo.

  2. it would allow a train running through the switch the wrong way not to cause damage (though spring tension might cause a derail)

  3. With a spring, if there is an obstruction, no damage to the mechanism would occur (with a good choice of spring tension).

Regards, Greg

#17

Cliff,

I have already developed and produced the RailLinx 900 RTSC (Remote Trackside Switch Control) System that can remotely control up to 30 track switches in series or 60 in parallel all from the RailLinx 900 Hand Transceiver. Here’s more information about the RTSC: http://remotecontrolsystems.com/?page_id=1224

#18

At the top of the home page is a small box ‘Updates’, Replies and notes to threads logged there. Turns red when a message waits.

John

#19

Hey Cliff, I thought that was you. Welcome aboard. I did really enjoy your layout construction and comment and was a bit sad when I moved over here to leave it behind. I was known as Nutz-n-Bolts over there.

I know from your concerns and techniques on your layout that you like to build things to last so I’m sure your switch motors will be the same. I think Greg’s suggestion on the “spring” is good and will promote longevity of the servo.

About the pictures, If you upload them to your freight shed, Once they are uploaded, pick the one you want, right click on it and select “Copy Image location” or some times it’s “copy image url” then go to the window with your post and use the insert image button Craig mentioned in the editor and paste the URL in. If you using photo bucket or flickr to store photos, let us know and someone can give you directions specific to that. Again welcome to LSC!

#20

Cliff Jennings said:

Hi Bob, thanks very much for replying.

Would you settle for local control? I don’t grasp the outdoor system of CTC application, or what “lockable” means; but I do want to honor local override, i.e., local operation. Would a local and manually-operable switch suffice for what you are describing?

===>Cliffy

Hey Cliff

A lockable switch means that, when locked, a switch CANNOT be thrown by someone at the switch; it can only be operated electrically. The lever either does nothing, or cannot be moved at all. A local manually-operated-selectable switch would work. Ive been envisioning various kinds of solenoids that connect/disconnect the switch stand with the mechanism, but havent quite got it figured out.