Hi all.
I’m in the process of making up my double track crossover using four LGB 1800’s.
My rr is raised up 24", with rock fill.
What’s a good method for supporting these four switches so that all are level and operate properly?
I’ve thought of treated 2x6’s on edge, a sheet of plastic, even building up a ladder system made of plastic wood. Anyone have any better ideas? I’m all ears. 
jb
John ,
I’d go for the ladder section of PT 6" on edge , if you make a box ladder , it will support the whole assembly flat and rigid .
My experience with crossovers on loose ground made me do just that eventually , there’s too many parts to keep in line to risk not having a firm
foundation . .If you don’t like the look of the wood showing through the ballast , try cutting steps where you are not screwing the track , then cover
the step-down with ballast . I found the important thing was to make the junction first and lead the other tracks from or to it . That may seem
obvious but may not be if you are trying to fit the crossover into existing trackwork . It’s easier to adjust single tracks than four at once .
Mike
So Mike, I’ve got to ask. Why pressure treated wood? I would think, on edge the syntheic lumber would work well. Any thoughts?
Mike,
I’m leaning to go with PT 2x6 on edge, spaced with PT 4x4 blocks, with every third or fourth 4x4 into the ground below the fill. I know it’s overkill, but what the hay, I got nuttin’ but time on my hands to build it. The entire crossover takes up 8 running feet of layout, and is about 2 feet wide.
Even though I do have an “X” piece of track, I opted for an in and out crossover.
jb
I’d use a sheet of backer board, the fiberglas reinforced concrete board used as a base for tile. Cheap, waterproof, will never warp, etc. Switches work much better dead flat in all directions, and if 2 are close together, it’s even more important.
Regards, Greg
Ric ,
The wood is ready cut to size (say 6xHalf) ,cuts easy and if you change your mind , can be re-used . I am not too familiar with the synthetics you mention , so can’t in all conscience comment on them . We have places here that sell floor timbers that size that are recovered from demolition sites , and they cost less than fresh timber . I would be interested to know what the synthetics are like .
Mike
John, I agree with Greg that the backer board is best. Both Lowes and Home Depot carry it. It’s sold in sheets 5’x3’ x 1/2" for about $10. It’s easily cut, waterproof and will lay perfectly flat. Lowes carries 2 brands with Hardybacker being the more expensive. Also it’s coloring is such that once ballasted it will be difficult to see.
Warren
Mike,
The synthetic boards I was speaking of is what Bruce is using.
http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=6204
After hearing the idea, I have to agree with Greg’s thoughts on the concrete backerboard. That stuff does work easily.
I’m a bit anal when it comes to switch supports. Perhaps that is why I never got the siding installed this year.
I use poured in place, reinforced concrete bases about 6-8" thick. I build the form to extend 3-4 inches beyond the switch in either direction so that all of the joints are on the same foundation.
The reset of the roadbed is trenched or built-up with 3/4 minus and ballasted on top with crusher fines.
I don’t attach the track to the switch foundations. One problem I noted this spring was that ballast had worked it’s way underneath and raised the switch by almost 1/4 inch.
JR
I like the backer board idea, but I for-see drainage problems with a sheet of that. In a downpour, the rain would pool, and wash all the ballast in to the points, etc. In freezing weather, it would freeze and lift the switches.
I’ll have to think out all the possibilities: pros and cons of all the methods and opt for the one that would
do the job the best.
I know, there is maintenance involved with all outdoor layout applications.
jb
John,
Your thoughts on draining may be true, but you could drill holes so that it would drain. Attaching it to your vertical supports would seem to work the same as the wood would do, without the possible warpage. I am aware that the wood would be on edge and the warpage would be minimal, but I would think the wood would swell with moisture and the wonderboard wouldn’t. Just thoughts, all my turnouts just float on ballast.
The best way to install backer board is to lay it in a bed of gravel. Then mount your turnout with a couple of self tapping screws down into the board. That will prevent the turnouts from floating. As for ballast getting into the points, I suggest painting the backer board black in the area of the moving parts and do not ballast between the rails in that area. Lay things out like real track and drainage should take care of itself. Frost heave is caused by improper draining. If the water cannot collect there will be no frost heave.
Warren
John, I’m not going to claim this is the best way, merely one way of mounting the switches. As you probably know I’m using the ladder method which is attached to underlying raised benchwork. The same procedure could be used by installing a 2x4 PT frame in the fill about 1-1/2 times the length of the crossover switches and then the ladder onto that. Properly leveled with the fill tamped down beneath it it should last a long time.
While the underlying benchwork is pressure treated the ladders are made of painted #2 red cedar I ripped myself on the tablesaw. I also used a PT 2x4 between the adjacent ladders part of the way where I had originally intended to put a platform. It also gives support to one of the switch stands. It is well drained and has held up quite well so far. The engine terminal area and adjacent has been outdoors since 2004.
Here’s what the area looks like after being filled in with ballast right after a rain. You can see that I changed the track configuration a bit as I worked. I try not to nail down the turnouts themselves preferring to secure the trackage connected to them. This allows for safe removal of theses expensive items should I ever decide to move the track around. So far I’ve only had to secure one of the turnouts to keep it secure. The rest free float between well secured track on all sides of them. I think any method will require some maintenance on occasion but so far I’ve experienced no instances where any of the track was unuseable. Ballast will settle and compact but the ladder remains in place. Again, this isn’t mean’t to be an advocacy, merely another option for your consideration.
A good point was made above, and I want to reinforce it. If you mount a switch to anything, screw it down, because the ballast will work under it eventually.
If you want to let it float, that works too, that’s what I do, but make the backer board about 1 foot longer than the switch(s) so that the connecting track does not try to lift the switch. Your ballast should be consistent in size, what will happen is that you will get about one “layer” of ballast under the switch.
I prefer to float my track, but either method will work.
For drainage, if you float it, washing out of ballast will be minimal, since you have one layer underneath. If you fix the track to the backer board, I would drill a few drainage holes.
The nice thing about using the backer board is (besides it being and STAYING flat) is that you can level the switch(s) by levelling the board, not pulling or pushing on the switch itself.
Any real wood will warp or expand over time.
The synthetic wood will not warp, but it is about half as rigid as regular wood, and will sag over time unless supported more often (check the sites that make this “wood” for decking, they recommend supporting it TWICE as often as real wood.) Think of the stuff like particle board, we have all seen particle board shelves sag over time. The difference is that real wood has nice long fibers, the synthetic stuff is plastic or plastic with sawdust in it. No reinforcing fibers.
Regards, Greg
Interesting topic! I only have three switches laid out so far, floated in ballast with no backing. Almost immediately, I found this to be a bad idea. It’s just too easy for dirt and ballast to get into the works. So I plan to pull them out and redo them with backer board.
Greg, what kind of switch motor are you using in that photo?
Richard, your benchwork and layout look terrific! Do you plan to build up anything around it to hide the benchwork and turn it into a “garden” railroad, or will it be more like a traditional indoor layout?
Ray, Greg’s turnouts are air controlled. Go to Greg’s profile and check out his web page. He also has some good stuff there on fixing the Aristo #6 turnouts.
Warren
Ray Dunakin said:Ray,
Richard, your benchwork and layout look terrific! Do you plan to build up anything around it to hide the benchwork and turn it into a "garden" railroad, or will it be more like a traditional indoor layout?
The plan is to eventually enclose the front facing part along the driveway with cedar fenceboards making it look like a raised planter bed. Of course it’ll still be hollow inside and the fence boards won’t quite reach the ground allowing rain water to flow through underneath. For now just completing the remaining benchwork and railroad will take most of my available time and funds so the facing will be a bit later.
I use 12"x12" porcelin tiles under the gravel supported switches. It seems to work well.
Jim Carter