Lately there has been a lot of talk about the price of track, how it is going up yet again and how the cost is a real detriment to the hobbyist jumping into large scale. Here is an idea to combat that.
Back in the early days of RRing when the cost and scarcity of metals made laying miles of track prohibitive for small RR they used what was called strap rail which was wood rails with iron on top. Granted the trains were smaller and ligther and didn’t move as fast but it was a cheap way to get a RR going. Of course when the straps loosened they caused derailments and other troubles. Has anyone ever tried to model a RR or section using strap rail?
I think a problem would be the curves and how to make them work but maybe this could be overcome.
Imagine if a manufacturer made the strap rail like sectional track pieces. The ties and raised wood would all be molded together then a brass strap laid along the tops. This might work for small backwoods RRs that use small equipment etc…
Just a thought to combat the ever increasing costs.
What do you think? Good idea?
Todd
Todd
Back in the late 90’s we had a club member that used 1/8 X 1/2" steel for rail like Richard had posted in one of the other threads.
It is used by cutting a slot in the ties 45 mm plus the width of the steel and then put the steel in the slots.
He used a small 110 volt welder to tack welded the pieces together.
There is also a possibility for logging type railroads that I have yet to see done on a model railroad; a pole road! Now this is not about touting battery power over track power but with the ever wider use of batteries it’s no longer necessary to power the track. A workable railroad could be made using wooden dowels to represent the logs used for rails on some early backwoods logging railroads. All that’s needed is for someone to make the correct type of wheels. Of course a groove could be discretely milled into the dowels to receive a brass or nickel wire to allow for track power as well.
Another thing that I had planned on trying if my railroad had remained at ground level was to have the track ford a stream sans bridge as has been done in the prototype. I’m still waiting for someone to do this. It’s not too practical for a raised railroad although probably possible with a lot of work.
These suggestions are for only a small minority of largescalers unfortunately and don’t address the needs of those concerned with mainline railroading.
Richard here is a video of some guy that made these live steam logging engines. He used the pole road method. Granted its on elevated table and not on the ground but pretty cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lRq_ZEf-cA&feature=player_embedded
Hi all,
Just some thoughts.
The strap iron, typically something like 1/2 by 2 inch, spiked to wood runners that some of the early prototype railroads ran on was a cheap easy means to get running. Unfortunately it wasn’t worth the wood it was spiked to. After just a few passes of the locomotive and cars the nails would start popping and breaking and the iron strap curling up like snakes and getting caught in the rods and wheels. Not good. This has been modeled in large scale with some success, but not much.
The iron/aluminum flat bar on edge inlet into wood ties used as rail has been used as track in large scale. This method has been around for years but never very popular. Everybody that uses it seems to eventually go to manufactured rail when they can afford it. I remember one case where a guy was using Masonite strips on edge as the rail inserted in wood ties???
Pole roads in the early prototype were feasable because the locomotive/cars came from the factory with the correct double flanged wheels to ride the poles. Also most of these (logging roads) were straight line, back and forth, no switching involved. This type line has also been modeled in large scale but with out much of a following. Think about the switches, yea, a bit of a problem to work out. I even saw one where the fellow tacked brass strip to the top of the poles so track power could be used. Now think about getting the “pulley” shaped wheels and adapting them to the locomotive and cars.
Every few years these discussions seem to come up when track prices get out of hand. Unfortunately the only really viable option is manufactured rail be it brass, aluminum, nickle silver, stainless steel, iron, or as it seems to be now days, gold.
All the above track options can be done, but how do you want to spend your time? Me, I will pay for my track of choice and spend my time somewhere else. I made this decision several years ago after hand laying rail on wood ties set on stringers buried in ballast. It is a good system, been in service 14 years, but way to time consuming for me to continue doing.
You think your track seems expensive think about the Central Pacific Railroad in the 1860’s that bought their rail from east coast foundry’s and had it shipped around the Horn (of Africa) to California then moved to the “end of track”. Just saying that right of way and roadbed/track was/is a major expense for the prototype so why should modeling the prototype be any different.
Like I said, just some thoughts.
But I agree with everyone else,
track prices are to ----- high.
Rick
Shawn said:
Richard here is a video of some guy that made these live steam logging engines. He used the pole road method. Granted its on elevated table and not on the ground but pretty cool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lRq_ZEf-cA&feature=player_embedded
Shawn, Neat video. Thanks. He’s just using wooden rails though. That’s not a pole road. Note the “rails” in the picture as well as the double flanged wheels.
Just did a quick on-line search of G gauge track prices. Aristo - Code 332, Brass, 6’ length, flextrack = $179.00 - that’s $29.83/ft. Sunset Valley - code 250, Aluminum, 6’ length, flextrack $18.10 - that’s $3.01/ft.
A small 10’X20’ oval would need about 50’ of track. At these prices the Aristo Brass track would be $1491 and the Sunset Valley Aluminium track would be $150. That’s a differential of $1341!!! Someone please check my numbers because this difference seems incredible.
However, if this is right, then it’s a no-brainer that R/C - Battery running on Aluminum track is the only way to go. That was my opinion on my last RR 4 years ago and still is as I start on my new RR at my new home.
Edit: Sorry for the outburst - I haven’t been following LS prices recently and when I saw that price I almost puked. My mistake - misread the ad - that price for Brass track was for 6 pieces, that makes it $4.97/ft. That’s more like it, but still too high. Aluminum is still 40% less and probably your best bet if you are using R/C and battery power.
Walter,
I don’t know where you got the price for the Aristo track.
I see Aristo brass track online for around $6.50 a foot.
Of course, aluminum is still much cheaper.
Ralph
Im getting about 6 and change for a foot of brass as well. Aluminum is the way to go but the problem with aluminum is if you have a ground layout and you have kids, dogs, deer, bears al. will not work. Brass is really the only way to go.
I don’t know about Bears, but I’m about 210lbs and step on my aluminum track all the time without any damage.
Can’t speak for the switches, as mine are brass.
Ralph
As a battery guy, I have this fantasy about pulltruded fiberglass… Set the color and the profile and off you go. Probably a huge minimum run though…
The biggest problem with strap rail is that it was pretty much gone by the 1870’s. Strap rail was most popular in the south where lots of wood and little steel made strap rail a popular choice, and labor was cheap so the labor intensive hand made rails were layed mostly in the south where railroads were mostly built to 5’ gauge. During the civil war many of these RRs were quite literally burned where they stood, wood rails didnt help. Where Union troops took control they would regauge the tracks where ever they could to allow Union trains to run continuously and prevent wider gauge southern trains from doing so if recaptured. They would lay new steel rails quickly instead of repositioning the old labor intensive strap rails. Post civil war south RRs were rebuilt to the new national standard gauge after the war using northern steel rails, to that end effectively elimanating strap rails by the last quarter of the 19th century. Some small RRs and logging lines might have held out for a while, but as locomotives grew in size and power, the wood rails were simply inadequate for the loading they were required to carry.
(http://www.mendorailhistory.org/images/railroads/strap_rail_3.jpg)
So if your modeling pre-1870 southern RRs, go for it. but otherwise strap rail was a monikar of the very earliest RRs, but certainly not modern diesel lines.
Thanks for the nice history lesson and posting a pic Vic
I didn’t know about this kind of rail
Rodney
Luckily I’m all set as far as track goes except for a few pieces here and there or adding a siding etc… What I was thinking about concerning the strap rail was a new comer to the hobby that is cash strapped who wants to get a little RR going. I realise this might be a poor idea considering a new comer might not have the modelling skills yet to build such a RR. I just thought it would be a neat alternative since many guys like to model backwoods logging etc… anyways.
I liked the video pretty sweet equipment, the photo of the pole RR and the strapped section photo. Cool and interesting stuff Thanks for posting.
Maybe someone has used such a method on their largescale venture or can post a picture or video link?
I still think it would be pretty neat if a manufacturer produced this type of track in sectional pieces for the large scale crowd. Track that could go on the ground amongst the tupils. I think there would be a market for it.
Has anyone been able to give a prolonged test to the Train-Li plastic rail and tie system? Would probably be okay for battery ops IF expansion and contraction did not create undue problems.
Another thought I mentioned on one of our other threads was the hollow rail brass track from Lionel in #1 gauge. I think that even Lionel uses solid brass rail for switches. Now, I would be the first to caution that the rail would be a lot less durable than solid rail. BUT it may serve well if the foot and critter traffic is minimal.
I probably won’t need to buy more track for myself, but I hate reading that track cost is thwarting newcomers. Perhaps a system using thin metal bar stock and slotted ties would be viable for getting new folks up and running. That way they could upgrade to “T” rail once they had settled on their railroad theme. Just so long as we don’t have to go back to a bank of light bulbs in parallel for speed control (via unscrewing or re-screwing the light bulbs into the sockets).
Just some thoughts,
David Meashey
One more interesting little feature of strap rail on prototype railroads was its annoying tendency to come loose and pop up through car and locomotive floors sometimes impaling any unfortunate individual that sat in the way.
Richard Smith said:The infamous "snakehead"
One more interesting little feature of strap rail on prototype railroads was its annoying tendency to come loose and pop up through car and locomotive floors sometimes impaling any unfortunate individual that sat in the way.
for many years i did not have enough track. so i made my own from curtain rails:
(http://kormsen.ko.funpic.de/bahn/forumpics/blech11.JPG)
for those, who are interested in the how to : http://kormsen.ko.funpic.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=434
That is a very interesting approach Korm. Where there is a will there is a clever mind to find a way.
If not curtain rail how about drop ceiling pieces they come in 10-12 foot sections. Not good for outdoors though.
I have a book about train wrecks and the dreaded snake head was a real problem back in the day and not only from strap rail but other inferior rails breaking loose. Of course the real danger then was when a bad rail derailed the train and the coal stoves or oil lamps set the whole deal on fire.
Any more thoughts on strap rail?
Strap rail and slotted ties have indeed been around a loooong time.
There are multiple examples in old Model Railroader issues from the 30’s, 40’s and 50’s. Many of them, interestingly, were in Great Britain.
Currently, there is a group of adherents in 1.5" scale live steam - Google “Groovy Track” and you will be mildly surprised how many hits come back. These guys are using something like 1.5" high by 1/2" wide strap steel let into 2x4’s on edge, so the construction is pretty meaty.
There was also a really nice large scale railroad that someone in California had built using 1/8x1/2" strap steel. Several photo of it appeared in the old Outdoor Railroader magazine. I subsequently traded some emails with Russ Reinberg about doing a series of articles about its pros/cons, design and construction. He told me that the layout ran like crap and no way was he going to waste time/space on articles written about it. He was quite vehement about it, so I’m not quite sure what he said was the whole story.
From what I can recall, the biggest problem with strap rail in the smaller scales, i.e., something smaller than live steam in 1"+ scales, is the ability of the ties to hold the strip steel/aluminum. The ties are so small, slotting them weakens them substantially - this allows them to flex and release whatever marginal grip they have on the strips. This can be overcome to some extent by making the ties longer and deeper (if scale was something like 1/2 x 1/2 x 4", increase them to 1/2 x 1-1/2 x 5, with the 1-1/2 dimension being oriented vertically).
Another way to overcome the problem might be to come up with some other material for the ties that would grip the “rails” better than wood.
Brian
Taxachusetts