Large Scale Central

St. Aubins pricing = status of large scale market?

The latest Garden RR St. Aubins ad of many pages indicates they will no longer be stating product prices in their ads. The rationale given is pricing changes rapidly. Readers are encouraged to join a pay to read St. Aubins sponsored website – they can get pricing there as well as making a phone call.

My take:

1 - My guess is St. Aubins now has a limited shelf supply of those large scale products that are purchased most often. So when a product is ordered by the consumer, St. Aubins states the price from their updated price list, the distributor supplies it to St. Aubins, they then ship it to the consumer.

This is analagous to the “just-in-time” relationship the auto industry has with the parts manufacturers. The result is no accumulation or storage of parts. However, pricing is not given to the consumer for price shopping – they pay for the completed car.

Increased replacement cost was given as the reason for no price listings by St. Aubins. OK, that is understandable if they don’t have the product to sell at the wholesale prices of last year. It’s called selling old stock for a sizeable profit because those ordering new stock can’t match the increased wholesale price.

2 - My second guess is the other mail-order/big store houses have an accumulation of product and can list prices that are way below St. Aubins trying to profit from up-to-the minute wholesale prices. Plus, they may not be able to order or did’nt order large quantities at wholesale discounts.

In short, for St. Aubins to list their prices only makes it clear that other sources will or can be seen as very competitive if those competitors can advertise product they have had for some time in which they paid for with lower wholesale prices.

CONCLUSION:
The large scale market appears to continue shrinking as seen in the limited stock of large scale products in those model railroad shops still operating.

Your analysis?

Wendell

Wendell,
basically the honeymoon is now over and it is down to the daily grind of making a business ‘profitable’. The post-LGB ‘dump’ on the market is now history and reality is upon us. With Walthers now distributing LGB at supposedly full retail pricing, then online discounters will need other products, as demand will surely ‘dry-up’ for LGB at the retail price levels expected, given current pricing levels in Europe. Similarly, with items manufactured by the other major manufacturers. St.Aubins seems to see online discounting as a passing fad.

       Secondly,  with most largescale products being manufactured in China and the Yuan being a very 'inflationary' currency,  it would be nigh on impossible to predict and state in the public press,  anticipated future 'sale' prices for those goods which are contracted in the Yuan currency.  Basically,  expect regular pricing changes for goods.

You would think that if it were not for LGB there would be no Large Scale Trains(LST), that may just be so, but . . . there are now a number of others making and selling LST items so why the hangup on LGB? Yes whan I started (in Germany) I had two LGB Locos and a couple of cars, after that I built my own! Outa wood with Delton trucks also ran on track power in the Chicken House on the farm! And had fun, but my life did not revolve around LGB so get over it all ready!!

Paul

Paul,
LGB is only a minor player in the field these days and will continue to decline in popularity as pricing and availability see it as a ‘boutique’ market item. My reference to LGB was that, for several years, we have been exposed to numerous pages of LGB dealer advertising in the popular railroad magazine, with prices reflecting the glut of material available. We became desensitised to the ‘real world’ situation.

  Read all of my reply and you will see that I feel that the constantly changing currency exchange rate with the Yuan and contracts being written with the Yuan as the designated currency,  will see an upwardly spiralling merry go round of expected dealer pricing from all the major manufacturers.  St.Aubins are merely expressing this dilemma.  I am aware of Wendell's interest in the recent marketting history of the LGB brandname.
Wendell Hanks said:
The rationale given is pricing changes rapidly. Readers are encouraged to join a pay to read St. Aubins sponsored website -- they can get pricing there as well as making a phone call. Wendell
I will have to pay a subscription to be able to see their prices online? That means just the act of a potential customer looking winds up being a profit center. In their dreams!

In the past, I have occasionally purchased from St Aubins and I list them along with other on-line vendors, especially when a newcomer asks where to buy trains. I just took them off that list.

It will be interesting to see whether others feel the same, or if St Aubins are able to convince LS train consumers that moment by moment pricing is in everyone’s interest.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

I’ve never managed to buy anything from St. Aubins. Once their website wouldn’t work, and three other times I ordered something, paid for it, and then got a call the next day saying the didn’t have it. It was good that they called, as opposed to, say, Wholesaletrains, which just leaves you hanging. But I’ve iven up on them–their online prices were not that good and it’s a really difficult and hard to navigate website

Got to agree with you Jerry. I can see not putting prices on ads in the mags. with all the changes going on now but, paying to see their prices is asking a bit much.
Dave

Other than e-bay occasionally,
I order from Ridge Road Station exclusively.
And a little bit from my LHS, to keep in touch with him.

I used to deal with Watts years ago, but they seemed to have disappeared.

Jerry Bowers said:
Wendell Hanks said:
The rationale given is pricing changes rapidly. Readers are encouraged to join a pay to read St. Aubins sponsored website -- they can get pricing there as well as making a phone call. Wendell
I will have to pay a subscription to be able to see their prices online? That means just the act of a potential customer looking winds up being a profit center. In their dreams!

In the past, I have occasionally purchased from St Aubins and I list them along with other on-line vendors, especially when a newcomer asks where to buy trains. I just took them off that list.

It will be interesting to see whether others feel the same, or if St Aubins are able to convince LS train consumers that moment by moment pricing is in everyone’s interest.

Happy RRing,

Jerry


Jerry,
Wendall’s post is a little misleading. You do not have to pay to view St Aubins’s on line pricing. While St Aubins is promoting paid membership in Team Large Scale, pricing is still available to everyone.
That said, Ridge Road Station is still my on line store of choice.

I was kind of surprised to see LSOL mentioned in the ad. I thought that site had gone belly up. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anyone who actually uses it, and I can’t imagine why anyone would when there are so many good sites you can visit for free.

Ray Dunakin said:
I was kind of surprised to see LSOL mentioned in the ad. I thought that site had gone belly up. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone who actually uses it, and I can't imagine why anyone would when there are so many good sites you can visit for free.
The LSOL forums are not as active as some but there a quite a few members there. They were the first to come out with the GR blogs and host mine.

-Brian

LSOL is still functioning, altho I am not a part of it, nor will I ever be…

From what I understand, LSOL went in with some sort of deal with St Aubins, so that LSOL members got special discounts on their purchases, and the pricing is probably part of that arrangement… I always thought that the statement ““Prices are subject to change””, covered the pricing when the increases of the products was presented…

I have done business with St Aubins many times before, and have always been satisfied with the product and service… But, I’m not about to pay to see what it’s going to cost me to purchase products with St Aubins, or any other hobby dealer… I have better things to throw money away on, like food and gas…

Seems like another wonderful arrangement for the hobbiests…

Andy Clarke said:
....But, I'm not about to pay to see what it's going to cost me to purchase products with St Aubins....
You do [u]not[/u] have to pay to see what the prices are if you go to St. Aubin's website. They are listed next to the item.

I would appreciate it, if your going to quote me, to use the complete sentence…

Your quote of my sentence makes it seem like I was singleing out St Aubins individually, and the whole sentence made a genereal statement to all hobby sites… To leave out the part ““or any other hobby dealer”” changes the whole intention of what I said…

Thank you

Andy Clarke said:
I would appreciate it, if your going to quote me, to use the complete sentence...

Your quote of my sentence makes it seem like I was singleing out St Aubins individually, and the whole sentence made a genereal statement to all hobby sites… To leave out the part ““or any other hobby dealer”” changes the whole intention of what I said…

Thank you


Ah, but he chose just that part to make a specific reply to.
Had he quoted the entire bit, he would have had to address ALL dealers (or any other hobby dealer).

“You do not have to pay to see what the prices are if you go to St. Aubin’s website. They are listed next to the item.”

The few times I have tried St aubins they were out of the product or the price ended up being higher. I personally like Ridge Rd. They are always on top of the Stock etc… Plus they mail out fast. I just wished Ridge carried Hartland products.
Wholesail is my second choice because they they do sell hartland and at a reasonable price. I have never had any problems from them. They have always shipped fast and are accurate with stock. If they dont have it they get new ones in.

hey, for some good pricing on HLW, try their Specials Page…

Like you I utilize Wholesale for HLW only!!! and noticed the new G-Scale Junction add still had HLW listed!

cale

Tried to spend some dough with St A at SELSTS, but they didn’t have what I was looking for…RRS has always been great!

On MLS, Shad points out that this “Teamlargescale.com” is in reality nothing more than a membership to LSOL. It has nothing to do with St Aubins, the “discounts” are on closeout items that they couldnt sell at the full price at SA, and that your buying them from LSOL, who then order them from SA through some sort of backdoor deal.

I dont like that, kinda a backhanded bait and switch if you ask me.

That whole multi-page spread looked kind of iffy to me. I’ve never bought from them mail-order. I have picked up an item or two at train shows, but that’s a whole different animal from phone/mail/web ordering. Ridge Road and Trainworld are my go-to stores. RRS has been beating TW on price for a while.

Several large scale manufacturers have begun policies of minimum advertised pricing. The prices most of us pay at places like Ridge Road Station or St Aubins is much less then the mimimum advertised price. We will have to wait to se what impact this will have on end user pricing as often the dealers compete for the lowest advertised price.

Stan Ames