Reports around the web of St. Aubins closing their doors for good. That one doesn’t really surprise me. I think in this economy, the final last stand will be a couple three players, and Ebay will probably be one of them!!! Prices raising all the time, I’m sure out of necessity, really don’t help the G scale hobby at all. Regal
If you have ever had a business shich was based on sales, you will understand, you gotta sell alot of stuff to pay the bills and rent etc. I don’t sell stuff and I still moved to the basement as it cost a lot less (i.e. 700.00 a month in rent alone). But the guy at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. keeps tell us that it is getting better! One must wonder!
Paul
Wow Jerry you aint kidding about this not being good for the hobby, for years St Aubins was the defacto outlet store for Aristo and one of the biggest online players, if they can’t make it - things dont bode well for other brick and morters let alone the online stores, however I dont think there “deal” with that other website a couple years ago where you were “encouraged” to join that website in order to get extra savings, made them many friends. Couple that with the ever rising prices must be really hurting overall sales. On the other site Greg pointed out that alot of the reasons they are going under have to do with their current business plan but I’ll still make an observation:
(http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/criswell_predicts.jpg)
The way things are going its geeting to be like real estate prices in 2007, where asking prices got to be so high that literally no one outside of a small group could afford to buy anything andnthe entire market collapsed. and thats the same scenario I keep seeing here. Some of the makers like Bachmann are clearly adjusting their approach to reflect that, namely producing far less units per item at a higher initial price, because they can see the writing on the wall. I see LS becoming a mostly online sales only affair as most brick and morters will no longer be able to afford to front the capital to stock items. Worst case some might drop out of LS altogther or at least slash there offerings - HLW has already dropped a good portion of their lineup, Aristo dropped the classic line, will USA be next to drop items? They havent produced a new engine in years. Dont think it can happen? Bachmann already has a long line of HO and N and is going deeper into its On30 lineup and Aristo is diving into O toy train level with their RMT line, both of which are far more affordable overall than LS is. They have backups and will always go where the money is. I dont know exactly where we will be a year from now but if the rumored price increases coming this summer are as bad as those rumors claim they are to be, we may indeed be looking at a zero sum gain for any new products from Aristo USA and Bachmann, and maybe even entire product lines if some companies drop out the guage altogether. Sorry to be so negative but my rose colored glasses got punched out during the Big Hindenburg Event and I’ve never replaced them. But I still say the biggest problem is the continued production in the PRC, not for price increases but the nagging inability for them to deal with the QC problems, no one wants to pay near brass prices and keep getting the same ever recurring crappy QC problems we’ve been getting over and over again for the last decade. Its NOT the price increases that will kill the hobby, its THIS.
Victor, you are partly correct in your observaton, quality control is important as is quality materials. Remember the Shay truck gears that were breaking almost as fast as they could be replaced? Still say we could do as well building here in a RTW state. If we pulled this work out of the PRC they might start having labor problems of their own!
Paul
My experience with St. Aubins was not good. I went there once and the ones that were there never asked if I wanted help. They were too busy complaining about the garden railroad club in Las Vegas.
I never went back.
E. Paul Austin said:
Victor, you are partly correct in your observaton, quality control is important as is quality materials. Remember the Shay truck gears that were breaking almost as fast as they could be replaced? Still say we could do as well building here in a RTW state. If we pulled this work out of the PRC they might start having labor problems of their own!Paul
Paul I was including material quality as part of the overall QC issues, and I still beleive a good chunk of production could be brought back to the US, if I’m going to pay high prices I’d rather pay US employees than prolitariets working under the thumbs of commie stooges, I personally dont care if the PRC has labor problem given their current government
Don’t forget that we, as largescalers (“G”), are on the bottom of the train model food chain.
HO being #1, and so on.
My advice is buy a few good locos, keep them in good shape and build the rest yourself.
That way if they all (LS manufacturing) go to the wayside, you’ll still have something to play with.
Well I guess I’ll put my two cents in. I think you all have good explanations and examples, but you can’t blame it all on the manuafactures. Just spend a few minutes on e-bay and you can see all the greedy people who are selling items for way more then they are worth. A 15 years old REA boxcar with crappy plastic trucks that will break as soon as you touch them for $50.00, there not worh more then $25.00 but people keep buying them and keep complaining that the hobby cost to much.
As a dealer I know the prices of items being sold because I have to buy them from the manufacturers and then try to make a small profit and sell them to my customers. But that is hard to compete with when you have all these so called website dealers selling everything at cost, so no wonder that they are going out of business. We live in a “McDonalds” mentality society that you can have it your way, when you want it, and don’t have to pay much for it.
The other big problem I see is that the Large scale section of model railroading has very few people that want to scratch build, kit bash, and make their own items like those in HO, N, and O scale. Large scale people for the most part want everything “Ready to Run” and don’t want to learn the skills needed to actually “Model” things.
Thats why I love being apart of this group because there is a larger number of modelers on this site sharing what they are doing so that others can learn.
Chuck
The closing is sad news for the world of large scale. First Ridge Road now St Aubins. Who will be next? I often wondered about the way St Aubins did business through probably their number one outlet Garden Railways Mag. First they had MAP to contend with. I thought it was weird that they couldn’t publish their prices, you had to go online and click a couple of times to get to what something would cost. Next came their largescale club? I wonder how many folks joined it and if it was worth it. Also didn’t the Dad step down and Jr take over recently? Plus from Doug Arnolds experience being ignored when you have questions and money in your pocket to spend is a sure way to kill your business.
Did St Aubins have a used/ preowned area or did they just sell new? I think it is very tough in this economy for most guys who want to model/ play with large scale to buy new so most rely on buying used equipment and or building their own stuff. Ebay is the Walmart of the train world. Why would I spend my hard earned money on a train car from St Aubin at full retail when I can buy the same thing for ALOT less on Evilbay. It is a vicious world for the little guy and I don’t think there will ever be an answer to it until it is too late.
It is a shame that St Aubins is closing. Maybe they will have a big sale like RidgeRoad did?
Todd
Fairly new to LS, I personally wrote to ST. Aubins and shared my discontent with the idea the their sister site was charging a membership to buy! How insane is that! They never responded. IMHO, they got what they deserved. Poor business practices lead to failure. I posted a few days ago about my visit to Charles Ro and how I got the feeling the shelves were on the thin side. LBG power…all but gone. Aristo power…barely there at all. They had a fair amount of their own brand, USA and a fair amount of Bachmann. The staff was complaining about the lack of Aristocraft real products available, and delivery of promised items. A few weeks ago, I was looking at a couple of interesting Hartland pieces and emailed them for a local sales dealer in MA. Not even a reply!
What still absolutely baffles me is all the grim predictions regarding the LS hobby on the and the other site, yet… when I look on ebay, the stuff is going for skyrocketing prices and people are buying! I simply can’t make sense of it.
I am going to say this very carefully, and only once:
It’s ain’t over until the fat lady sings.
TOC
Curmudgeon said:
I am going to say this very carefully, and only once:It’s ain’t over until the fat lady sings.
TOC
???
Maybe the eulogies are a bit premature. There is nothing about closing on the web-site.
I don’t know what the sign at ECLSTS said.
It could be many different things, from closing the retail outlet, to selling the business.
Or maybe even a LGBOA move, closing under one name and opening up under another
Ralph
Here’s what started the whole topic
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Aristo-Craft-Trains/115285431882687
From the Aristo-Craft Facebook Page Posted 15 hours ago
“St. Aubins just announced that they will be shutting their doors.”
This makes me wonder as a side note, does AC “filter” their FB page like they do their online forum???
John, just because thier charging high on Ebay doesn’t mean they are actually selling at that price. I watch stuff on ebay and alot of that overpriced BIN stuff never sells. It just gets relisted over and over.
We all wonder if LS will be gone. Never will, capitalism is still alive and well. If there is a need, someone will fill it. Its that simple. Some companies will come and some go but there will always be a supply.
I agree with Chuck that our society is a “McDonalds” society. But, I disagree that you cant compete as a small business owner. I own an optical shop. I have to compete directly with the Walmarts of the world everyday. I compete and usually come out on top. It is simple business paractices. Sell for more than you have in it. Keep your waste to a minimum and pay attention to your business. Customer service is your top priority. In these lean times, an owner has to be directly involved in his small business. Not leave it up to some manager whom you pay. Because an owner has something in the game, a manager is collecting a paycheck.
If St. Aubins is truely closing then they arent running their business properly. There is money to be made in LS. I look to people like Robbie whom is undoubtedly involved in his business because most of the time when I call there, he answers the phone. He has great customer service and is very knowledgable on what he sells. I’m not trying to promote anything here, but to make a point that there those out there who “get it.”
Victor Smith said:Very true. Go to "ending soonest" and most of the items are still there.
John, just because thier charging high on Ebay doesn't mean they are actually selling at that price. I watch stuff on ebay and alot of that overpriced BIN stuff never sells. It just gets relisted over and over.
Isn’t this their 5th Annual “Going Out of Business Sale?” 
Steve Featherkile said:No Steve its there "Going Out For Business Sale" :)
Isn't this their 5th Annual "Going Out of Business Sale?" :P
Ahhh, I understand. 